• 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏@lemmy.one
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Not too sure what they’d replace this with.

    I’d assume teachers are extremely familiar with the book after teaching it for years - shifting away from it will take time for them to adjust to… not to mention any lesson plans that they’ll need to rethink

  • Tenebris Nox@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Not sure if it’s taught still in Northern Ireland but Of Mice and Men hasn’t been examined for GCSE since around 2016. Michael Gove altered the GCSE courses and one of the changes to English Literature was that only texts by British writers could be studied. It also meant To Kill a Mockingbird, Heroes and other popular texts were removed.

    What’s happened is that Of Mice and Men has been moved to earlier in school. So children in Years 7-8 are now reading it. Which is a bit of an issue as many children aren’t really ready to engage in the adult themes.

  • /JJ@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    is there a better place, to learn and discuss racial slurs and the significance of the word, than in a class room ?

    or should they learn it from rap music ? where it’s thrown around liberally like punctation, with no information about why it is the word that it is ?

    • Ruchbah@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      What they are saying in the article that racism can and should be thought (and is!) but it’s entirely unnecessary and off putting for it to be part of English lit.

      Part of English lit is encouraging a positive attitude to reading and literature. Yes it delves into the details but it should be encouraging young people about the joy of reading. That’s definitely not going to happen if you are choosing books that alienate your readers when there are plenty of alternatives that would be more suitable

      This isn’t about “banning” of mice and men. It’s just about it not being the focus of the class where this hateful racist language and attitudes would be read out.

      It’s a very understandable viewpoint

      • /JJ@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        if we’re only reading about rainbows and unicorns, it certainly thins the library.

        • Ruchbah@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          That’s not the point and you know it. A child who already is likely to have experienced racism towards themselves not being comfortable with hearing casual racism being read out in class isn’t the same as wanting books restricted to “rainbows and unicorns”

          I’m not saying that I agree with that of mice and men should be removed from the curriculum (honestly I don’t know what the right thing to do is) but I understand and empathise with the girls position.

          • /JJ@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            it is the unavoidable point if you insist English Lit should avoid difficult topics in order to instil the joy of reading, because literature is filled with harrowing stories of people behaving inhumanely towards one another.

            at the same time, arguing that difficult topics should not be avoided but taught carefully, does not mean i do not empathise with those affected.

    • Sens@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      The main complaint is that for people of colour, to be sat in a classroom with their peers whilst the derogatory words are read out loud is highly uncomfortable for them. I totally can understand that and why this is now coming up as more and more of the UK are becoming multicultural.

      It should be taught in a classroom yes, but probably not in English literature class and something more like a Modern History of British Culture class, where it can be explained why Of Mice and Men was originally selected for a GCSE book, why it’s no longer acceptable, why the derogatory words are disgraceful and then why it was removed from the syllabus. This gives an all round education on the subject. Not perfect but it’s a start.

      When I was in high school I was told half-caste was an acceptable term in the mid 2000s, and I still accidentally used it till a couple years ago because I was never told otherwise. It was only because of a friend who is more social than I am told me it’s no longer acceptable to use to refer to people with mixed racial parents.

      • /JJ@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I can see why, only if it is still being taught as it was 30 years ago - ie without addressing the language used - and I hope thats not the case. I can’t imagine anyone doing so in 2023.

        If you start pulling stuff for those reasons (and for the record, I dont understand why they are still reading Steinbeck anyway) you go down a slightly dodgy path.

        • Tenebris Nox@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Of Mice and Men is a good novel for lower-attaining teens who struggle with reading. It’s very short (5 or so chapters), deals with “adult issues” and is a bit like a “novel-by-numbers” where you can introduce things like setting, theme, characters, symbolism in a pretty straightforward way. One of the problems was that when schools began chasing exam grades in earnest because of accountability, ALL kids started studying the novel including the top end who should be academically stretched by something more challenging.

      • /JJ@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        forgot to say -

        . When I was in high school I was told half-caste was an acceptable term in the mid 2000s,

        dual heritage is the way to go ! and much more meaningful.

      • Tenebris Nox@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s possible to read the novel and see discriminatory language without speaking it aloud. It needs to be taught in a context where the racism (and misogyny and abuse of disabled as well) are called out. English lessons are the best place for this to happen.

        There’s a great poem that’s been taught in English classrooms for years by John Agard called “Half-Caste” where he demolishes the racism of the term.

        Teachers - English teachers - need to challenge and discuss racism.

        • Sens@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Sounds like I had a crap English teacher then if being taught “half-caste” was meant to frame it as a racist term.

          • Tenebris Nox@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Quite likely. There are a great number of poorly-educated terrible English teachers. Pot luck if you find a good one in a school.

  • MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    1 year ago

    Link won’t work for me. I’m curious about this, why? From what little I remember it is a really great book. The rabbits George.

    • TerryCustard@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      Contains racial slurs which are a realistic portrayal of how people would talk at the time it is set, but which are difficult for the students to hear repeated in a classroom setting, regardless of context

      • theory@feddit.ukOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Theres only so much you can coddle students though, before its just a bit silly

        • Granary@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’d agree with that. It’s probably a positive thing for children to be exposed to that sort of language in a controlled environment where the teacher can explain historical context. It’s not like they’ll be avoid racial slurs forever

          • charlytune@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            1 year ago

            Are you talking about white kids, or black kids though? I think the issue is that black kids unfortunately will hear that language anyway, as the targets of it, and that hearing it read out in the classroom is going to be a very different experience for them.

            • Sens@feddit.uk
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              If they also studied a book that contained racist terms for white people, then it would be fair in that context.

              However are there any racial slurs for white people that are as offensive as it is for black people? I don’t honestly think so.

              Societies moving on, time to drop off mice and men from the syllabus and educate as to why it was removed in a different classroom setting.