GrapheneOS. Among the considered Android custom ROMs suitable to use, it is THE snake oil for security and privacy. It is mostly a rebranding of AOSP features and kdrag0n’s project put on top of AOSP. It is a deep rabbit hole. I did a dissertation of what it is over a year ago. https://i.imgur.com/pQHoq84.jpg
Linux/FOSS/privacy communities across Telegram, 4chan, Reddit and Lemmy are filled with propaganda they disseminate, often via few hour old accounts or via long thesis like comment spam. They have instructions on how to do this publicly. https://imgur.com/a/fpcsIL2
Any questioning or criticism of this snake oil product will result in an instant ban, and further questioning may result in internet wide harassment, bullying and witch hunting.
Great alternatives are CalyxOS and LineageOS. The devs and community behind them are respectful, helpful and welcoming of criticism. They also do not harass critics and go around shit flinging on other FOSS projects. They also do not shill for Big Tech or Google/Apple.
Edit: seems like GrapheneOS sockpuppets are back at downvoting
So if I understand you correctly, Graphene OS does everything it says it does but overhypes its differences with other forks. That doesn’t sound like snakeoil, only effective marketing.
Why shouldn’t I use it over the other forks then, particularly because useful features like hardened_malloc are only avalible on Graphene despite being widely ported to linux distros?
They also do not shill for Big Tech or Google/Apple.
What’s the story behind this? I’m genuinely curious.
I will say I strongly dislike how the developer has handled criticism, but that seems to be more a failing of the dev then a problem with the OS.
Micay wants to steer everyone away from Firefox towards Chrome, towards everything Google, believing in Micay’s vision, believing in closed source security and so on. He also used to shit on Android and believed and propagated the claim that Fuchsia is the future, where Google’s microkernel would rule the mobile world. I think he is a Google fanboy more than anything else, and we have many such Big Tech fanboy specimens in this world.
GrapheneOS officially supports and encourages the use of Google Play Services and a Google account for “security” purposes. Their “unofficial” members also spread propaganda advocating for the same.
They are also an embargo partner with Google for security patches, and add features that may threaten the lives of privacy users, or end up in jail or death in certain circumstances.
Saddly no it’s not, its a component embedded by the compiler that can be separately installed to replace the programs default allocator implementation. Also I can’t find a fork of android I know of that supports it.
If I understand you correctly, graphene OS is bad because:
The developer is using his fans to market the software he helps make, resulting in more people using it.
Arguably that’s a good thing as it at least makes people aware that other android forks exist, encouraging people to switch to one of the more private forks of android.
The developer hates Mozilla and unfairly hates TOR because he sees them as Mozilla shills.
How does the developer having bad takes effect a piece of software? Firefox in mine and others experience, still works well on the device. Yes I am aware of his vanadium project, if he wants to waste time, power to him.
By default the OS complies with government laws both defacto and official.
Why is that a bad thing, especially since it sounds like the alternative is breaking said laws? Yes there are often moral arguments against laws such as that, but the advantage of open source is that you can switch to something that gives you the freedom to break the law if you want.
The only thing you have shown me (which I already agreed with) is the lead developer (who is not the only one working on the project) is immature and paranoid, you have not showed why I should not use the software that he helped make, only that other forks support more hardware.
Thanks for being willing to discuss this stuff, I appreciate you are willing to take the time to write a detailed response.
The developer is using his fans to market the software he helps make, resulting in more people using it.
No, he uses fans, team AND sockpuppet accounts to harass, witch hunt and abuse people as he wishes to. I would be very happy if Kiwifarms gets behind him, as they did with Keffals aka miss catboy ranch.
The developer hates Mozilla and unfairly hates TOR because he sees them as Mozilla shills.
No, he hates them because he was mocked deservedly by Tor devs, if you followed the Tor Project mailing list. This clown actually believes in Google’s vision and helps monopolise the open free web.
By default the OS complies with government laws both defacto and official.
If this is what you took away from mandatory shutter sound horror, then GrapheneOS should make it more compliant with governments by adding certified spyware from USA, China, Russia, India, Germany, France, Israel, Canada, Australia etc. He should make it maximum compliant with governments and spying agencies. There is no need for privacy or security, just be a good model citizen! No need to hide anything! Are you are criminal or terrorist or pedo?
I seriously think you are a bad actor simping for GrapheneOS, looking at the reductionist arguments you are inventing continously to defend them.
the lead developer (who is not the only one working on the project) is immature
Should have added the uwu, cat and heart emojis to make him look even less malicious. Github commits tell me otherwise. This tells me you did not do one ounce of research and are a victim of his propaganda that you are continuously parroting.
At the very least, you have adequately shown me that the developer is too unstable to be able to guarantee the OS remains secure. Next time I’ll use Calyx OS since they are pretty much the sane anyway.
I do want to point out that:
No, he hates them because he was mocked deservedly by Tor devs
Technically the email you linked showed that he hated TOR beforehand, then the devs (rightly) mocked his reasoning, we were both right.
[by your logic] He should make it maximum compliant with governments and spying agencies
Please do not twist my words, though I understand once you assume someone is a bad actor you (quite understandably) give up. My point is that software should not be configured to break the law by default. Why would a user want something that breaks the law when first installed, when most users want to follow the law? Ideally software like this should have separate “legally compliment” and “freedom” branches but I argue having the first one is better then the second one in most cases.
I always recommend CalyxOS and LineageOS in place of Graphene, as they are sane, welcoming, and are comfortable with criticism. They also do not have a gatekeeping or censoring nature wrt community.
Please do not twist my words
I am not twisting, I was just being comical and absurd. Privacy and security both as concepts and as software/hardware are incompatible with the nature of intrusive governments and agencies. You cannot even travel to Japan with a pair of scissors, folding, small, does not matter. So this shutter sound crap does not make sense to justify either.
Custom ROMs do not need to or should try to be “compliant”, but focus on protecting privacy seekers and be transparent and welcoming on developer/community end of things. Anything should focus on empowering the masses first.
I’ve seen this sentiment before, but I’m waiting to switch until I learn how to add the microphone and camera quick toggles included in GrapheneOS to LineageOS. Is there a project for that?
This is unfortunate, Bouncer seems to have died off Play Store. You could get an APK of it. I can share mine if you like, scan it on VirusTotal. I have kept it for years now.
GrapheneOS. Among the considered Android custom ROMs suitable to use, it is THE snake oil for security and privacy. It is mostly a rebranding of AOSP features and kdrag0n’s project put on top of AOSP. It is a deep rabbit hole. I did a dissertation of what it is over a year ago. https://i.imgur.com/pQHoq84.jpg
Linux/FOSS/privacy communities across Telegram, 4chan, Reddit and Lemmy are filled with propaganda they disseminate, often via few hour old accounts or via long thesis like comment spam. They have instructions on how to do this publicly. https://imgur.com/a/fpcsIL2
Any questioning or criticism of this snake oil product will result in an instant ban, and further questioning may result in internet wide harassment, bullying and witch hunting.
Great alternatives are CalyxOS and LineageOS. The devs and community behind them are respectful, helpful and welcoming of criticism. They also do not harass critics and go around shit flinging on other FOSS projects. They also do not shill for Big Tech or Google/Apple.
Edit: seems like GrapheneOS sockpuppets are back at downvoting
So if I understand you correctly, Graphene OS does everything it says it does but overhypes its differences with other forks. That doesn’t sound like snakeoil, only effective marketing.
Why shouldn’t I use it over the other forks then, particularly because useful features like hardened_malloc are only avalible on Graphene despite being widely ported to linux distros?
What’s the story behind this? I’m genuinely curious.
I will say I strongly dislike how the developer has handled criticism, but that seems to be more a failing of the dev then a problem with the OS.
GrapheneOS does things exactly the same as AOSP but under different feature names. This is pretty much snake oil. Not effective marketing.
… is part of Linux kernel, so Android already has it. It is not exclusive to Graphene.
Micay and his minions call Firefox insecure because Micay has a personal grudge against Tor devs that did not exist before August 2019 for some reason. https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2019-August/013995.html
Micay wants to steer everyone away from Firefox towards Chrome, towards everything Google, believing in Micay’s vision, believing in closed source security and so on. He also used to shit on Android and believed and propagated the claim that Fuchsia is the future, where Google’s microkernel would rule the mobile world. I think he is a Google fanboy more than anything else, and we have many such Big Tech fanboy specimens in this world.
GrapheneOS officially supports and encourages the use of Google Play Services and a Google account for “security” purposes. Their “unofficial” members also spread propaganda advocating for the same.
https://i.imgur.com/bUdVCpH.jpg
They are also an embargo partner with Google for security patches, and add features that may threaten the lives of privacy users, or end up in jail or death in certain circumstances.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220829223401/https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1564322206414524420#m
https://old.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/pjl4bh/what_is_your_opinion_of_grapheneos_conforming_to/
Saddly no it’s not, its a component embedded by the compiler that can be separately installed to replace the programs default allocator implementation. Also I can’t find a fork of android I know of that supports it.
If I understand you correctly, graphene OS is bad because:
Arguably that’s a good thing as it at least makes people aware that other android forks exist, encouraging people to switch to one of the more private forks of android.
How does the developer having bad takes effect a piece of software? Firefox in mine and others experience, still works well on the device. Yes I am aware of his vanadium project, if he wants to waste time, power to him.
Why is that a bad thing, especially since it sounds like the alternative is breaking said laws? Yes there are often moral arguments against laws such as that, but the advantage of open source is that you can switch to something that gives you the freedom to break the law if you want.
The only thing you have shown me (which I already agreed with) is the lead developer (who is not the only one working on the project) is immature and paranoid, you have not showed why I should not use the software that he helped make, only that other forks support more hardware.
Thanks for being willing to discuss this stuff, I appreciate you are willing to take the time to write a detailed response.
No, he uses fans, team AND sockpuppet accounts to harass, witch hunt and abuse people as he wishes to. I would be very happy if Kiwifarms gets behind him, as they did with Keffals aka miss catboy ranch.
No, he hates them because he was mocked deservedly by Tor devs, if you followed the Tor Project mailing list. This clown actually believes in Google’s vision and helps monopolise the open free web.
If this is what you took away from mandatory shutter sound horror, then GrapheneOS should make it more compliant with governments by adding certified spyware from USA, China, Russia, India, Germany, France, Israel, Canada, Australia etc. He should make it maximum compliant with governments and spying agencies. There is no need for privacy or security, just be a good model citizen! No need to hide anything! Are you are criminal or terrorist or pedo?
I seriously think you are a bad actor simping for GrapheneOS, looking at the reductionist arguments you are inventing continously to defend them.
Should have added the uwu, cat and heart emojis to make him look even less malicious. Github commits tell me otherwise. This tells me you did not do one ounce of research and are a victim of his propaganda that you are continuously parroting.
I refuse to take you seriously after this.
At the very least, you have adequately shown me that the developer is too unstable to be able to guarantee the OS remains secure. Next time I’ll use Calyx OS since they are pretty much the sane anyway.
I do want to point out that:
Technically the email you linked showed that he hated TOR beforehand, then the devs (rightly) mocked his reasoning, we were both right.
Please do not twist my words, though I understand once you assume someone is a bad actor you (quite understandably) give up. My point is that software should not be configured to break the law by default. Why would a user want something that breaks the law when first installed, when most users want to follow the law? Ideally software like this should have separate “legally compliment” and “freedom” branches but I argue having the first one is better then the second one in most cases.
All that being said, enjoy your day
I always recommend CalyxOS and LineageOS in place of Graphene, as they are sane, welcoming, and are comfortable with criticism. They also do not have a gatekeeping or censoring nature wrt community.
I am not twisting, I was just being comical and absurd. Privacy and security both as concepts and as software/hardware are incompatible with the nature of intrusive governments and agencies. You cannot even travel to Japan with a pair of scissors, folding, small, does not matter. So this shutter sound crap does not make sense to justify either.
Custom ROMs do not need to or should try to be “compliant”, but focus on protecting privacy seekers and be transparent and welcoming on developer/community end of things. Anything should focus on empowering the masses first.
I’ve seen this sentiment before, but I’m waiting to switch until I learn how to add the microphone and camera quick toggles included in GrapheneOS to LineageOS. Is there a project for that?
What kind of quick toggles are you talking about? You can use Bouncer to accomplish similar thing on any Android phone out there.
In the pull down area where flashlight and Bluetooth toggles go, GrapheneOS has options for disabling the camera and microphone.
Sounds great, but I can’t find “bouncer” on either the F-Droid or Google Play stores. Anyone got a link?
This is unfortunate, Bouncer seems to have died off Play Store. You could get an APK of it. I can share mine if you like, scan it on VirusTotal. I have kept it for years now.