Have been keeping half an eye on framework laptops as a potential next daily driver as and when I’m ready for one.
Just wondering what people’s experience of using them on linux has been, particularly nixos
I’m assuming all the drivers are in the kernel given the way the company is
Have been using a 2016 thinkpad for the past year or so and have had a decent experience with it, with the way lenovo have gone with their newer thinkpads it seems like framework is now the best for maintainability/upgradability
(not planning to upgrade in the immediate future as this machine is doing fine, but frameworks are a strong contender in my mind right now and I’m curious as to people’s experience)
My brother has a Framework 13 and mainly uses a combination of NixOS and Windows. Most of the time he uses NixOS, but sometimes the software he needs is broken on Nix. When that happens, he reverts to a previous version of Nix or he boots onto Windows. He has Windows installed in one of the external-drive socket thingies that he keeps plugged in at all times in case he needs Windows.
Apart from the occasional broken Nix package, he has had issues with the hyper-sensitive two-finger scrolling in Gnome (which I would say is not directly a Framework or Nix problem). Also, a while back, when I bought the computer with him, we bought Oloy RAM because it was fast and cheap, but that lead to weird crashes. Framework support helped us test the sticks and eventually we sold those sticks and got the Framework-tested Crucial sticks, which solved the problem. Finally, I remember he had to be careful about not just closing the laptop but actually clicking “sleep” and then closing it, because otherwise it would get super hot and lose a lot of battery.
Despite these struggles, he recently told my Mac-loving girlfriend that he will not get a “disposable” computer. I take this to mean he will keep using his Framework laptop.
I imagine the broken packages thing are less about the framework itself, he’s probably using discord or other electron stuff right?
I’ve found when an electron package gets marked as insecure it takes everyone a while to update to the secure one
The clicking sleep thing is interesting one but at the moment I’m doing something very similar anyway
Got the Framework 13 Ryzen 5 7640U when it was initially released (Batch 5 I think). Brought my own SSD (500gb I still had kicking around) and RAM (32GB). Only ever ran Linux (Arch) on it. Had a lot of issues at the beginning with suspend pulling lots of power and then (after some tweaking) suspend not being usable because at every wake the Filesystem was read-only. Also the boot option (efistub) would vanish if I hit Ctrl+Alt+Delete during boot (meaning I would have to boot from a live USB every time to fix it. After a while of this (and some troubleshooting) I switched the SSD (with another 1TB leftover from some other project but rather new) and the boot option issue stopped. After undoing my tweak for suspend, suspending now works and at least seems to be pulling less power. So had a bit of hassle at the beginning, now it’s just a great Linux laptop.
I run NixOS on my Ryzen Framework 13 and it works flawlessly, including fingerprint reader. I run KDE now but I’ve also used Gnome with no issues.
I used this nixos-hardware module for some of the fancier hardware tweaks I don’t really understand: https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware
I’m running Fedora on my Framework 13 - works great, no issues. I have only had it open to install the RAM so far, but it appears to be as upgradeable and repairable as advertised. Looks great, feels premium, nice and light. Not great battery life is my only complaint, but there are larger batteries available for the 13 since I bought mine.
Ooh battery upgrades are a good sign, what kinda battery life do you get now with an unupgraded one?
I haven’t evaluated it properly in a while but I’m pretty sure it was under 8 hours with the CPU throttled and the screen brightness low. I am usually just writing or coding on it, nothing too intensive.
Ooooh very promising
What’ve you got it throttled to?
I mean I use it in power saver mode. It goes as low as 400MHz but it’s not fixed at that. 12th gen i7 btw.
Is this on Linux or Windows?
I have the 16 and use NixOS. I haven’t had any issues. I’m able to use the fingerprint scanner and all of the function keys do what they’re supposed to.
If you’re not already aware, there’s a nixos-hardware repo with common settings for various devices that you can import. All of the Framework laptops have a module there. Although, if I recall correctly, everything worked fine before I pulled that into my config, so it seems like the hardware scan did a good job making everything just work.
Is the 16 the one with the GPU slot? Thinking of getting that one myself at some point possibly without the GPU to begin with to save a bit of money then upgrade if I need it
Yep, that’s the one. I can’t speak to the compatibility though because I got the one without a dedicated GPU.
I have a Framework 13 with the Ryzen 7640U. I absolutely love it! When I first got it, it had a really weird issue where alternating lines on the screen went black for a quarter of a second randomly, but I contacted support and got a new display and it’s been great! The fingerprint sensor is amazing. I have the config from nixos-hardware for whatever improvements that adds, and it’s been working well! I get pretty good battery life for it being an X86 laptop too. You do have to remember to configure the regulatory domain if you get the AMD one or else you’ll be stuck with 2.4GHz wifi! The archwiki page for Framework has instructions!
Sleep kind of sucks on the original 11th gen hardware. They pushed out a bios update that broke S3 sleep, so now all you’ve got is the s2idle version, which the kernel is only OK at. Your laptop bag might heat up. S3 breaking isn’t really their fault, Intel deprecated it. Still annoying though. I’ve heard the Chromebook version and other newer gens have better sleep support.
Other than that, it’s great. NixOS runs just fine, even the fingerprint reader works, which has been rare for Linux
Do you know how to make the fingerprint reader work on my newly purchased Carbon X1 Gen 6 with Ubuntu on it? I’ve gone to great lengths to make it work but still haven’t found a solution
Not in general, sorry. Best bet is to make sure you’re using the most recent kernel, which Ubuntu tends to lag on. You can also try checking out the arch wiki entry for it. It’s a different distro, but the wiki is good and commonly has tips relevant for any distro.
Thank you!
Pretty much all my sleep/suspend issues with Linux went away when I switched to Manjaro from Fedora on my 11th gen Framework 13. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but the majority of the time I can open my laptop after a couple days and still have most of my battery.
What kernel are you running? From what I understand, that should be the major differentiator if you’re not using S3.
Is that the case for the AMD boards as well?
Couldn’t tell you unfortunately. It looks like AMD is also on board with deprecating S3 sleep, so I would guess that it’s not significantly better. The kernel controls the newer standby modes, so it’s really going to depend on how well it’s supported there.
I have a 11th gen Intel Framework 13 running PopOS.
Everything is fine except the
bugfeature with the rechargeable CHMOS battery. On my model it only charges when the laptop is charging. (They changed that behavior in all later model afaik)Since I use my laptop only sporadically I can’t just pick it up and use it right away because that battery is always empty. When it’s empty the power button doesn’t work even when the main battery is fully charged.
What exactly is a CMOS battery?
It’s a coin-cell battery. Traditionally it was used to keep the memory that stores the bios-settings and the real-time-clock powered when the PC was turned off.
By now the bios settings are stored ona different kind of memory, so it doesn’t need power when turned off.
But the rtc still needs power when the laptop is off as well as other stuff (for example the circuitry that makes the power-button work)
In the framework it’s also rechargeable, so you can’t just swap it for a cheap one from the store once it runs out.
I mean that seems like a better way to do it, I’m assuming these things last for years by the fact I’ve never had to replace one or even know about it
How is it only charging when plugged in an issue if it lasts longer than the laptop’s own battery
I guess if you don’t use it for long enough it depletes while powered off
The battery lasts about a mont in that laptop and gets worse quickly over time when not regularly charged.
I’m not sure if the short runtime is caused by the design-decision of using a rechargeable battery or a big power-draw from it.
For me this is also the first laptop that ever had an issue like that. Even my decade old thinkpad is still on its first CMOS battery.
FW 16 on Ubuntu LTS has worked flawlessly for me except the battery drain on sleep is really bad (20% per 24 hours). No crashes or freezes or resume from sleep failures as I’ve experienced on other laptops with no vendor support.
Does the same apply for hibernation? My current behavior is to hibernate my machine manually before shutting the lid anyway so I don’t think that would bother me too much (though it would be nice to have a machine that will suspend properly)
I’m currently using LUKS full disk encryption which can complicate hibernation. There are some community instructions here https://community.frame.work/t/guide-framework-16-hibernate-w-swapfile-setup-on-fedora-40/53080
I just found if you install Debian 12 and make the LVM swap partition the size of RAM, you can finally enable hibernate to encrypted swap without craziness during install. It was a breath of fresh air.
Are you using LUKS full disk encryption? From my experience, LUKS complicates hibernation.
Yup. LUKS with LVM from the installer. Guided partitioning did try to set swap to 1GB, so I deleted both logical volumes (root and swap) in the guided installer to make swap 16GB. After install it was just like a non-LUKS setup, only having to set RESUME. It was very refreshing consider previous hoops I’ve jumped through.
Kubuntu on Framework 16 AMD 7000 series here. Sleep is horrible - definitely drains your battery. Bag heats up, and I estimate maybe a 1% drain per hour. I’ve enabled hibernate though I rarely use it.
Battery is alright but not great. I get maybe 2-3 hours of active, light use from full battery.
No compatibility issues that I’ve noticed, though, of course, Linux has its fair share of minor non-hardware-related bugs.
Camera is serviceable but not amazing. Not sure about microphone but I assume the same thing. Speakers are somewhat odd in that the speakers are pointed to the side rather than toward the front, but again - serviceable.
Have you tried it much without the GPU? I imagine that would cut down battery usage by a lot right?
Camera mic and speakers are not a deal-breaker especially as they’re upgradable from what I understand
Yes, I don’t use the external GPU. I just use the AMD APU. Also I realized that AMD 7000 could refer to both the cpu and the GPU. Ah, AMD and their marketing
Hmmm 3 hours battery is definitely a major downside, given it charges off usb c less of an issue but still
Was actually considering getting one of those copilot pcs once the Linux support catches up, supposedly people are charging those things once a week or so
Just tested with normal power profile and screen brightness turned down - battery went down by about 50% after 3 hours. I think my laptop usually dies after 3 hours because I have the screen brightness up
What’s the brightness like and in what country if you don’t mind me asking?
Tend to have my current laptop on full brightness all the time otherwise I can’t see anything, and I live in a generally pretty dark country
I mainly do work indoors, so the brightness does not really matter that much to me. But as far as I can tell, the brightness is pretty normal for laptops - I don’t think it’s any brighter or dimmer than other laptops I’ve used in the past. According to this website that I found, brightness is 25 to 486 nits. Google search seems to say that average maximum brightness for laptops is somewhere around 300-400 nits.
My understanding is that the screen is generally what eats up most of the battery on device, so if you plan to have brightness turned up, it might be difficult to find a laptop with a long battery life.
My understanding is that Arm chips don’t have any fundamental advantage over x86 chips. They’re more efficient simply because they’ve been optimized to be more efficient for so long. I’ve heard that upcoming Intel and AMD chips could be able to compete with the new Arm cpu’s, so if you’re not going to get a new laptop soon, it seems worthwhile to just wait and see
Not planning to give up on the trusty ThinkPad soon anyway
So far the evidence I’ve seen has been overwhelmingly that arm chips are way more power efficient
People say it makes no difference but I’ve yet to see an x86 device come close to the arm ones battery wise, seems like a strange coincidence
Yes, but that’s my point, you see. Because Arm historically has been used for mobile and small devices, there’s been a strong incentive for decades to emphasize power efficiency. Because x86 historically has been used for desktops, there’s been a strong incentive to emphasize power. It’s only been very recently that Arm attempted to have comparable power, and even more recently that x86 attempted to have comparable power efficiency.
Sure, Arm is currently more efficient, but the general consensus is that there’s no inherent reason for why Arm must be more efficient than x86. In other words, the only reason it is more efficient is just because they’ve been focusing on efficiency for longer.
Both AMD and Intel’s current gen x86 cpu’s are, from what I can tell, basically spitting distance away from Qualcomm’s Arm cpu’s in terms of battery life, and rumor has it that both x86 companies should be able to match Arm chips in efficiency by next gen.
So if efficiency is a priority for you, I think it’s worthwhile to wait and see what the cpu companies cook up in the next couple of years, especially as both AMD and Intel seem to be heavily focused on maximizing efficiency right now
Interesting, is the CPU upgradeable on the framework? Could be nice to replace that later down the line when those come out
