In a memo to its 55,000 members, the Canadian Union of Postal Workers blasted the company’s previous offers and said it met face-to-face earlier in the day with company negotiators and issued a broad new contract proposal.
Probably the first article in a while that clearly outlines WHERE the negations are at and what each side wants.
I’m pretty reliant on Canada Post so I’d really like them to pay the workers what they’re owed.
OK but what is the difference between OWED and WANT? I was looking at listings for Canada post positions and they apparently already made living wages in most markets AND have pensions on top of that?
Without all the numbers it is speculation.
However Canada post is NOT tax payer funded it is a for profit entity that has been in a death spiral for quite some time not dealing or not being allowed to become more efficient while mail volume keeps dropping.
No they want to have fewer part time, more full time and all new staff to have pensions.
To me, being a mailman is a hard job that requires a lot of physical and mental labour
It may be physically demanding but not a particularly skilled one… You have routes, you learn them you haul your load every day. Kind of like a bus driver, warehouse picker or even a retail staffer… This should be an entry level job geared to the young and able part time that you move on from later… Not a life long career with a pension.
I don’t want some idiot losing my package. I like Canada posts because it rarely fucks up my delivery - today i have to go far, far out of my way to pick up a purolater package containing medication because the purolater delivery person’s brain turns to mush whenever they need to deliver a package to an apartment building.
The Canada Post delivery person who usually delivers to my area has never had that problem, he and he alone apparently has the ability to make it to the 2nd floor where my apartment is located. FedEx/Puralater/UPS have never succeeded when tasked with the same thing, i always end up having to go to a depot across town to pick it up myself with them.
I have had Canada post delivery issues as well, particularly in the past they would just dash a pickup notice to my door INSTEAD of knocking or ringing a door bell for packages… I was CONSTANTLY going to the post office to pick things up that I WAS home for and could have received if they had rang the door bell or knocked even. It really comes down to the individual.
Everyone should be paid fairly but from the info so far I am not convinced the union demands are resonable in this case other than maybe the mat leave request.
Chef requires essentially apprenticeship and repeated effort to become proficient at over a significant amount of time at that. Cook at a fast food place with a prescribed method of prep? Low skill but requires a small amount of time for a TEEN to become proficient at.
There are MANY jobs that do not require much skill, that I held in the past in my teens. Sure you suck at them for the first week or so but your skill in them often tops out fast as they are NOT really difficult to learn or train IE ideal for part time.
Retail SUCKs because of the people, but is NOT a “technically hard” to learn job.
Many jobs are PHYSICALLY difficult but NOT HARD TO LEARN.
Question do you think the following positions should all get the same pay have the same skill? Which require a greater investment in knowledge or training?
Chef
Line Cook
Dishwasher
Server
Busser
Bartender
I just don’t personally think mail delivery is anything but a part time level skill job.
Average Canada Post Mail Carrier hourly pay in Ontario is approximately $23.55, which is 7% above the national average.
As of December 1, 2024, the average annual pay for an elementary teacher in Ontario is $41,226, or about $19.82 per hour.
What board pays elementary teachers that low? Most start as A3s and make around 60K with 0 years experience (I looked at York and Ottawa-Carleton). In 3 years, they can take a few AQs, hit A4 and be making north of 80K. The average teacher in Ontario probably has a lot more than 3 years in and makes closer to 100K, and that would still not be accounting for any specializations that would provide a bonus for some. Your numbers look more like starting pay for QECO category A (teachers with no undergrad degree) from 10 years ago.
That site looks like it is trying to go for the average job listing, which is probably listing the minimum starting pay for the minimum qualification level. And I still can’t find a single board that pays that little. The average teacher is likely starting as an A3, since it is hard to get into teacher’s college without high grades and a four year undergrad with honours. At any rate, 41K is a gross underrepresentation of average teacher pay.
Here’s a pay grid for Toronto (which is not the best paying board) that only goes up to 2021. An A3 started at 56,302. That number will vary maybe up to a couple thousand anywhere in Ontario depending on the board. Your average teacher though has probably been in for closer to 10 or 15 years and is probably A4 unless they did no further education. They make around 100K.
It’s physics: Our feet weren’t evolved to last 40 years of all-day use. The job, as I understand, is a little more involved than a dude scanning labels and house numbers.
Even your nounification of ‘cope’ suggests you will only understand this decades from now.
I think you need to go back to school humans are the APEX of endurance animals for walking on this planet. It is 100% within the physical norms of a human to walk all day… The romans marched almost halfway across the world on foot.
It sounds like a lot until you track activities of active people it is well within reason. A typical warehouse worker in a large warehouse will do similar however it is indoors.
Someone doing recreational back country hiking will also carry that much are walk further.
YES physically demanding but not really extreme for a human.
However Canada post is NOT tax payer funded it is a for profit entity that has been in a death spiral for quite some time not dealing or not being allowed to become more efficient while mail volume keeps dropping.
We keep treating essential services like they need to make a profit.
Mail service to Edmonton seems a little redundant, but mail service to Tuk or even hay river may not feel so “extra”.
I get why they spun it out to an arms-length thing (like the CBC, independent) but it’s entirely vulnerable now to funding cuts when the likes of Milhouse get into power. It was a bad idea to close the books.
The second a public service is privatized, the quality of the service drops, the fees raise and the only efficient thing is how to drain the customer dry.
This is the fucking neoliberal lie that the market is always more efficient than public entity. It’s only true if we look at the profits made. Otherwise, everything else gets worse.
OK but what is the difference between OWED and WANT? I was looking at listings for Canada post positions and they apparently already made living wages in most markets AND have pensions on top of that?
Without all the numbers it is speculation.
However Canada post is NOT tax payer funded it is a for profit entity that has been in a death spiral for quite some time not dealing or not being allowed to become more efficient while mail volume keeps dropping.
Looks like they want more part time and full time positions to be hired on, plus raises to keep up with inflation.
To me, being a mailman is a hard job that requires a lot of physical and mental labour, it should be very well paid
No they want to have fewer part time, more full time and all new staff to have pensions.
It may be physically demanding but not a particularly skilled one… You have routes, you learn them you haul your load every day. Kind of like a bus driver, warehouse picker or even a retail staffer… This should be an entry level job geared to the young and able part time that you move on from later… Not a life long career with a pension.
I don’t want some idiot losing my package. I like Canada posts because it rarely fucks up my delivery - today i have to go far, far out of my way to pick up a purolater package containing medication because the purolater delivery person’s brain turns to mush whenever they need to deliver a package to an apartment building.
The Canada Post delivery person who usually delivers to my area has never had that problem, he and he alone apparently has the ability to make it to the 2nd floor where my apartment is located. FedEx/Puralater/UPS have never succeeded when tasked with the same thing, i always end up having to go to a depot across town to pick it up myself with them.
I have had Canada post delivery issues as well, particularly in the past they would just dash a pickup notice to my door INSTEAD of knocking or ringing a door bell for packages… I was CONSTANTLY going to the post office to pick things up that I WAS home for and could have received if they had rang the door bell or knocked even. It really comes down to the individual.
Everyone should be paid fairly but from the info so far I am not convinced the union demands are resonable in this case other than maybe the mat leave request.
That’s like saying a chef job isn’t particularly skilled because we can describe it in 9 words.
Psst: suggesting working-class jobs aren’t real jobs is how they keep your wages low.
Chef requires essentially apprenticeship and repeated effort to become proficient at over a significant amount of time at that. Cook at a fast food place with a prescribed method of prep? Low skill but requires a small amount of time for a TEEN to become proficient at.
There are MANY jobs that do not require much skill, that I held in the past in my teens. Sure you suck at them for the first week or so but your skill in them often tops out fast as they are NOT really difficult to learn or train IE ideal for part time.
Retail SUCKs because of the people, but is NOT a “technically hard” to learn job.
Many jobs are PHYSICALLY difficult but NOT HARD TO LEARN.
Question do you think the following positions should all get the same pay have the same skill? Which require a greater investment in knowledge or training?
I just don’t personally think mail delivery is anything but a part time level skill job.
Average Canada Post Mail Carrier hourly pay in Ontario is approximately $23.55, which is 7% above the national average.
As of December 1, 2024, the average annual pay for an elementary teacher in Ontario is $41,226, or about $19.82 per hour.
What board pays elementary teachers that low? Most start as A3s and make around 60K with 0 years experience (I looked at York and Ottawa-Carleton). In 3 years, they can take a few AQs, hit A4 and be making north of 80K. The average teacher in Ontario probably has a lot more than 3 years in and makes closer to 100K, and that would still not be accounting for any specializations that would provide a bonus for some. Your numbers look more like starting pay for QECO category A (teachers with no undergrad degree) from 10 years ago.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Elementary-Teacher-Salary--in-Ontario
That site looks like it is trying to go for the average job listing, which is probably listing the minimum starting pay for the minimum qualification level. And I still can’t find a single board that pays that little. The average teacher is likely starting as an A3, since it is hard to get into teacher’s college without high grades and a four year undergrad with honours. At any rate, 41K is a gross underrepresentation of average teacher pay.
Here’s a pay grid for Toronto (which is not the best paying board) that only goes up to 2021. An A3 started at 56,302. That number will vary maybe up to a couple thousand anywhere in Ontario depending on the board. Your average teacher though has probably been in for closer to 10 or 15 years and is probably A4 unless they did no further education. They make around 100K.
Toronto Elementary Collective Agreement
This is pure cope.
It’s physics: Our feet weren’t evolved to last 40 years of all-day use. The job, as I understand, is a little more involved than a dude scanning labels and house numbers.
Even your nounification of ‘cope’ suggests you will only understand this decades from now.
I think you need to go back to school humans are the APEX of endurance animals for walking on this planet. It is 100% within the physical norms of a human to walk all day… The romans marched almost halfway across the world on foot.
Edit:
Canada post workers walk between 17-22km a day and carry up to 30 pounds of mail https://www.ufcw.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31576&catid=9845&lang=en#%3A~%3Atext=Letter+carriers+perform+physically+demanding%2Cno+walk+in+the+park.
It sounds like a lot until you track activities of active people it is well within reason. A typical warehouse worker in a large warehouse will do similar however it is indoors.
Someone doing recreational back country hiking will also carry that much are walk further.
YES physically demanding but not really extreme for a human.
did you just bring up some nonsensical point to exploit workers? how’s that boot taste?
Buzzword buzzword buzzward no need to process thoughts just use buzzword
We keep treating essential services like they need to make a profit.
Mail service to Edmonton seems a little redundant, but mail service to Tuk or even hay river may not feel so “extra”.
I get why they spun it out to an arms-length thing (like the CBC, independent) but it’s entirely vulnerable now to funding cuts when the likes of Milhouse get into power. It was a bad idea to close the books.
I generally agree, but also governments often don’t run services very efficiently
The second a public service is privatized, the quality of the service drops, the fees raise and the only efficient thing is how to drain the customer dry.
This is the fucking neoliberal lie that the market is always more efficient than public entity. It’s only true if we look at the profits made. Otherwise, everything else gets worse.