• 0 Posts
  • 47 Comments
Joined 2 months ago
cake
Cake day: March 10th, 2026

help-circle




  • Maybe I’m biased, but I find it hard to believe that those 150 million (nearly half the population of the US?) would see a notable drop in the quality of their lives if their iPhones were Samsung, or Huawai, or any other non-domestic company’s.

    You’re right in that “meaningfully improve” and “disproportionate” aren’t precise or scientific terms, either.

    And re: colonialism, I think more people have managed international trade without going coloniser than did, so it can’t be seen as the sole origin. Needs more to germinate.

    On the main issue, I’d say while GDP is far from perfect, it’s better to have the measure than not. Even if it works best as part of a range of measures and not over relied upon as it tends to be in popular understandings at the moment, in my view anyhow.
    Temper it with more inequality stats, and also median wages vs. cost of living.


  • I suspect that what the person you replied to, meant with “meaningfully improve the lives of US citizens” was that the amount Apple contributes to the GDP of the USA (odd, since much of the goods aren’t domestically produced) is disproportionately high compared to its impact on quality of life of people in the US as a whole.

    While I’m sure most Apple employees are paid slightly above the median wage, I don’t know the median salary for an Apply employee. I also, like you, am not utilitarian enough to think that a handful of people living large in opulence makes up for the way inequality is harming living standards and the economy as whole (not to mention the impact of it all on the planet). Additionally, Apple and large companies don’t buy from, or in most cases sell to individuals. They buy and sell mostly to other companies and only at the end do smaller branches or franchises sell to actual people. Mostly you have numbers and goods moving between old fashioned AIs running on human-processing power, but not actual people.

    • P.S. Colonialism didn’t begin with international trade, because the colonies were part of the colonising nation. They begin with murder, exploitation, and appropriation of conquered territory - trade could only happen once the formerly free regions were given a colonist government with sovereignty apart from the colonist home nation. And most of them were also just corporations originally too; and many who went were coerced either directly (by violence or law) or indirectly (by economics).

  • You’re very correct, in that any measure that becomes valued turns into a gamified target.

    I do think that we have a habit of using GDP rather than GNP to obscure how many British products have been bought by Yanks, and have their profits syphoned off overseas.

    My bigger issues with GDP is how it does tend to end up as the sole yardstick used in mainstream economics debates, and how it often includes financial services - which seems an artifical inflation; for instance simply paying the fees on a savings account (or even the overdraft fee) count towards GDP figures by default, but then arbitrarily choosing what to exclude makes a whole lot of new problems, and is something else you’re right about, too.



  • A strong belief in separation of government from society, and traditionally opposed to unity of state and religion too.

    Islam as a whole, prior to Peak Colonialism (which obviously led to some serious cultural and social restructuring) Islam was big on society-religion being apart from government and power. Leave government alone and ignore it as much as you can to live well within society - Sharia as a social code for getting along, with more wiggle-room and freedom compared to medieval laws from governments or local elite.

    Debt , pp. 220-225 has a lot more of Graeber on the matter and we can both check the bibliography for more in depth reading.