A little bit of neuroscience and a little bit of computing
Yea, I’m unclear on how you can take web components and still have widespread browser support (not knowing enough about their ins and outs).
Plain template elements are widely supported and have been for ~10 years (which ideologically matters to me along the same lines as the top post’s article) … perhaps a little bit of hacking together can get you close with just that?
But nah. These goobers got high off npm modules and did shots of JSX in the bathroom at lunch time.
Fucking LoL!
Anyone here have thoughts about doing basic interactive stuff with at most vanilla JS?
Youre right about lemmy-ui, unfortunately it doesnt have enough contributors. I dont know why that is, you’d think a project written in a popular language like Typescript would easily find contributors.
Random thoughts:
More generally:
Absolutely!
The bit I’m conceptually stuck on (not know much at all about how a good plugin architecture would work) is how a plugin can surface or affect the UI, especially in an ecosystem with multiple UIs/Apps/Frontends, and, a federated ecosystem at that.
Given the apps, I figure it’s not possible without a convention of plugins providing APIs which apps can then implement against when available, which adds a good amount of complexity but should be viable for popular/useful plugins. Though, tangentially, this does affirm for me that the whole native mobile app expectation is a bit of a trap for a social system like the fedi (as webUIs are naturally more universal and maleable).
So, for immediate results, I can see only two options:
Is there something I’m missing about how a plugin system could work?
I hear you for sure on this.
I personally appreciate the push the core devs make for a “less demanding” relationship between users and open source devs. I think they have a point and it’s good for long term sustainability and I’ll probably find myself defending it.
But I like you’re framing, and in retrospect it seems (as is usually the case) that some people organising was what was missing just to get everyone helping each out as much and efficiently as possible. While any member of the community can (and should) do that, at some point it makes sense for the core devs to take on a task like that, I agree.
Should there be something like a lemmy admin’s community for talking about the ins and outs of running a lemmy instance? Something like that over time can be some sort of band-aid for missing documentation (it’s searchable etc).
I’m aware that there’s the matrix room and a lemmy support community … but maybe just opening things up to any chat about hosting lemmy in one place could actually help (in part because you can easily search specifically within one community).
but we’re at a critical point right now. It’s no longer software that is just fun side projects and building stuff that looks cool, it has some real issues now that it has a real userbase. I’m definitely one to say “But it’s FOSS, and other people can pick up and submit a PR” - but it also says something when the head devs just completely ignore a massively huge issue with it.
This is a general issue I think, not just for lemmy but the whole fediverse (whatever one’s opinions might be on particular priorities).
It’s all non-profit and being run and built at a much smaller scale than many users would appreciate (I think). Sure there are plenty of people here, but not that many. Combined with no obvious revenue streams, such as ads or subscription fees, there really is only so much that can be done. Some time last year even the Mastodon team (by far the most successful fediverse platform) admitted that they didn’t have the capacity to work on new things for a while … they were just busy keeping things running. And they are (apparently) notorious at being slow to ship new features. Meanwhile platforms like firefish just straight up died last year.
So yea, it might be a critical point, for sure. But putting more on the core dev teams may not be the answer for the simple reason that it’s just not viable in the long run.
If we enjoy the bigger community focus and open and non-profit organisations that makeup the fediverse, the “answer” at this critical point might be to find a way to give back somehow … to organise, build communities, run fund-raising campaigns, think of ideas for more sustainable funding, find devs who can help etc etc. It’s perhaps onerous and annoying, even to read perhaps … but this is likely the tradeoff we have to make for a place like this.
The introduction of a plugin system seems interesting here, though it’s still alpha and basically looking for feedback from would-be plugin developers
AFAICT, there’s no established way for a plugin to surface affect the UI, which would be a somewhat unwieldy problem anyway due to the apps and frontends ecosystem. Probably the best path for any plugin that provides a UI would be to have a system for aggregating links to plugin UIs.
With something like that in place, plugins and other services that just use the DB/API, could really go a long way to filling these holes, if they haven’t already.
So it seems that the work needed here is perhaps “distribution” work … where there’s a more “plug and play” Lemmy distribution with plugins etc bundled?
A few months ago, the “Nazi” presence on substack and substack’s insistence on not moderating them (like at all it seemed) broke as a story, during which Casey Newton (and by extension his “platformer” blog) got engaged with substack about the issue and, after being disappointed with substack’s responses and policies, famously left for Ghost (see their post on the move here.
Pretty sure that boosted its profile and prompted talks of federating, which they were initially hesitant to do … but here we are now.
Ha, yea! If you know rust, then you don’t need to reach for Python (right?!). Plus the main motivation was to contribute to lemmy itself while also learning rust. That another platform is good for personal instances doesn’t change that, though piefed does seem cool and I can see myself wanting to get involved with it at some point.
Cheers! 2 threads and 2gb RAM I’d what I would have hoped for anyway. Thanks!
But I get the database thing. Its spiking every couple minutes and a lot every hour. It’s not a big deal if you have 2 threads at least but I can see how it doesnt work for everyone in every scenario.
Yea database management seems to where the growing pains are right now (with the core devs welcoming help from anyone with DB/PostreSQL expertise) … and indeed it seems to be a perennial issue across the fediverse platforms.
If I may ask (sorry, probably annoying) … what sort of resources would you recommend for a small personal lemmy instance? (let’s say 1-5 users, ~200 community subs and a few local communities?)
Woah woah … this is legit awesome! Just tested (on lemmy.ml) and yep … seems to be working like a charm!
Give up to matc-pub for the PR (and maybe a new core dev for lemmy too?).
I figure this makes live megathread style posts/chats more viable … which is certainly cool!
I’ve mentioned this before, but an interesting possibility might be to enable selected posts to be “live chats” through a websocket like process as lemmy used to be, just for selected posts for certain windows of time, whenever a live chat dynamic is sort.
It’s the sort of thing that could be scheduled and subject to admin approval or something if resources are a concern.
Otherwise … awesome to see!
Yea I did a quick search through the GitHub issues, and it seems like there are some growing pains with updates they’re making to the way things work and the load it puts onto the database. Sad to hear for smaller instances as my impression was that lemmy had pretty good performance for smaller instances. Architecturally, it makes sense that there are different tradeoffs for bigger and smaller instances. It’d be good to see things mature to the point that you can tune things for your instance size. In the end though, picking the appropriate platform but with the assurance that migration can occur when you need to change platform may be a good way to go.
I think there’s a pretty fair argument that more common and easier languages and tech stacks are preferable platforms for smaller more personal instances … just the comfort of being able to modify and debug is probably worth whatever other tradeoffs may be encountered. Python, naturally, is basically a prime candidate. So yea, PieFed seems very cool, especially for personal servers and they’ve got a good performance profile.
Interesting! Any insights or comments on what’s increased the resources of lemmy over the recent updates?
Still, I think you raise a relevant malicious path. Like I said, I wouldn’t be surprised if something contentious happens however infrequently.
We can already create private instances that don’t federate for those niche communities;
That being said, creating a private instance is a relatively difficult hurdle. By providing private communities, an admin can take care of the hosting, along with all of the other communities, while those who want something more controlled and closed can have an easily accessible option. Plenty of people want their social media to have options for being relatively closed or relatively open, and I think it’s healthy to provide those options.
I hear you though on the lemmy-world community closing possibility (and similar) … that would easily be an abuse IMO and it’s not entirely clear what would or could happen.
To be fair though, the whole lemmy-world instance (or any other for that matter) could simply turn federation off at any point to the same effect you fear, so it’s arguably just part of the federation flexibility. In this case, any community mod has their hand on the switch for their community, which means we’ll probably see it get used in controversial circumstances at least once. But for any given community, going either private or local-only is sure to drop user engagement or be a PITA regarding managing the “approved users” list, so I can’t see it being a popular action TBH.
All good … the whole post was started by me misreading in the first place I think!
It’s a little paranoid of me, but I like the idea that a basic web app I make can be thrown onto any old out of date machine, where ~2015 or younger seems about right for me ATM.
Yea. From memory, it’s just an unrendered chunk of HTML that you can select and clone with a bit of JS. I always figured there’d be a pattern that isn’t too much of a cludge and gets you some useful amount of the way to components for basic “vanilla-js” pages, just never gave it a shot either.