Broadly speaking it sounds a bit like Antitrust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_(film)

But I haven’t seen it in quite a while so I’m not sure how well specifics line up.

Oh, interesting. I also initially read it as a thinly-veiled threat but I think you’re right it was more of a “will i be assaulted”. Still a weird thing to say.

I guess I don’t see what the incentive would be for this, or even what it realistically means in this case.

Do you mean like relicensing the backend and frontend with a closed source license? I don’t see what the incentive would be for that unless they wanted lemmyml to be the only instance in existence (which runs counter to it’s raison d’etre) and to make secret/proprietary/commercial extensions to it that are difficult to develop in the open.

Or I guess unless they wanted to start charging instance admins for the honor and pleasure of running their software, which at least right now would be the quickest way to ensure nobody runs their software.

Okay. If the article is misleading or wrong, it shouldn’t be posted. If it is found to be incorrect after posting, is it better to fix the title and let the comments sort it out or to fully delete the post?

The title of this post is at best misleading and at worst simply wrong. From the source that OP linked in a couple other comments here (emphasis mine throughout):

Since the start of July, the app’s downloads have fallen by almost 30% compared to the preceding two months, according to data from app performance tracker Apptopia. … Twitter has gained usually 15 million to 30 million users a month since 2011, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. It gained just 10 million users between August and September of this year. … Visits to the web version of X, which still operates as twitter.com, fell since the start of the year, with global web traffic down 10% in August and US traffic down 15%, compared to a year ago, according to an analysis by Similarweb. … So far in September, daily users are down to 249 million, a roughly 2% decrease… Monthly users are down by about the same percentage, now at 393 million users from 398 million in July.

That is emphatically not “loses over 30% of users in two months.” That is, though, “signs of slowing growth” and “signs of the most recent round of dramatic announcements wearing off and folks moving on with their lives” which is why Musk is doing his best to get back into the news cycle.

Maybe OP should go ahead and update the post with a more accurate title to avoid spreading misinformation.

I read the His Dark Materials trilogy in middle school, and that hugely influenced my thinking about power structures generally, religion specifically, and morality broadly. I mean, I didn’t have words for a lot of that stuff at the time, but looking back they were massively influential.

I re-read them a couple years ago and they really hold up astonishingly well. And yes I am secretly smug about having read these books as a kid while most of my peers were reading Harry Potter.

This instance that you are posting to is in fact run by a guy who has proven to thwart DDoS attack without resorting to CF using methods 1 and 3 (confirmed), perhaps more.

I’m glad to hear it. Did they share these solutions in an easy-to-consume manner for other instance admins who may not have the same expertise, resources, or time? As I said before, I’m not suggesting they must do the work to share these things in an easy-to-consume manner - I’m just saying if these solutions aren’t available in an easy to consume manner, then you shouldn’t be so surprised and upset that other people are reaching for the easy-to-use solutions instead.

Telling people “bring a PR or GTFO” is very much the non-constructive shitty attitude we need to avoid.

The sentence you quoted very specifically did not say “bring a PR or GTFO,” so I’ll ask that you try to not put words in my mouth. In fact, I went to great lengths to make it clear I wasn’t saying that because I happen to agree with you - it is an unconstructive attitude.

I very specifically did say “bring a PR or don’t get mad that other people aren’t immediately doing the work for you.” If you aren’t bringing a PR then you are bringing an idea. If you aren’t bringing solutions but are bringing a sensationalist and confrontational attitude, don’t be surprised when you have a confrontation rather than a conversation.

Maybe it would be more constructive to identify barriers to adopting privacy-respecting solutions rather than getting judgemental about using other solutions. What makes Cloudflare easier than tarpitting? How could the barrier to adopting tarpitting be lowered to make it a reasonable solution to adopt? Are there any Lemmy admins that can weigh in on the conversation and share their challenges?

Okay, you’ve doubled down on hating Cloudflare, which is fair.

Do you see why maybe instance admins are reaching for the Cloudflare button, though? They are often individuals or small teams with relatively little expertise, time, or financial resources. Plus a lot to lose financially if an attack blows out their bandwidth budget or gets them kicked off their hosting. And they’re under extreme pressure to keep their instances available and reliable because that’s what users expect from web services these days, whether it is realistic or not. Saying “the instance will be offline for two weeks while I work on this haproxy config a couple hours each evening after work that may or may not effectively mitigate this attack” isn’t really a reasonable expectation.

Throwing out “just move to tor,” “jusy build a firewall rule with the last-known IPs of your users,” “just do tarpitting,” and “just turn off images.” Are nice ideas (except for maybe the known IP thing which has a lot of problems in an age of mobile devices and VPNs), but none are yet solutions.

So presenting it as “I can’t believe people are doing [this incredibly easy thing that I have an ethical problem with] rather than [this series of complicated ideas that have not yet been proven to actually solve the issue] this is a disaster in every way” is not conducive to open conversation and instead makes people who did [incredibly easy thing you have a problem with] defensive and/or just straight up annoyed and dismissive.

Ideas are good and having ideas for instance admin tools for things like moderation, ddos mitigation, etc is good because we need to start somewhere. But you can’t jump right to “I had this great idea it’s an absolute travesty that nobody has already implemented it” and expect people to take you seriously.

Now that’s not to say that your post is bad unless it comes along with “Intro to Tor for Lemmy Admins” or “how to configure rate limiting with tarpitting in your reverse proxy” or “here’s a PR I made for Lemmy that implements an optional text-only emergency mode.” But if you aren’t coming with those things you should instead come from a place of collaboration, education, and curiosity.

It’s always interesting when someone is like “I wish I could go back to using smaller sites/forums or try some more open/ethical platforms, but I can’t because all of my family are on Facebook.”

Remember just 20 years ago when most of your family wasn’t anywhere on the internet and that was just fine? I recognize that I’m saying this as a semi-isolated weirdo on some relatively obscure corner of the Internet, but it’s okay to not be in constant passive contact with everyone you’ve ever met. Yeah it’s more work to keep in touch with the folks you actually care about if you can’t do so passively via Facebook, but that’s how it always was. Email exists, texts and phone calls exist, meeting up exists.

If there are people you care about you can still keep in touch with them without using the same social media platform as them. Just like in the 90s you didn’t need to read rec.models.railroad to keep in touch with your model train loving uncle.

I get that these connections (whatever one might say of their quality or tangibility if the interaction is just “look at picture, press like button”) are important to people and one of the positives of platforms like Facebook, but if you’re going to bemoan not being able to seek alternatives solely because the entire world isn’t switching with you, it’s important to realize that is a choice and not a requirement.

DMVs are sometimes where states will dump troublesome or underperforming employees they can’t outright fire.

On the other end, the DMV is one of the places where employees have a job interacting with the public for sometimes-complex transactions. And, generally speaking, the public is dumb, unpleasant, and unprepared. Especially when dealing with low-level government beaurocrats who are telling them something they don’t want to hear.

As far as I’m aware, Usenet is mostly paid providers used for piracy these days. There’s probably still some subculture somewhere still using it for discussion, but I wouldn’t expect much.

Yeah, I like that. After being able to recognize and validate claims, being able to verify the validity (at least logically if not factually) of any conclusions drawn from those claims seems like a good next step.

I dunno. For someone just starting to want to think critically during discussions of when reading things, asking them to get serious in the academic pursuit of logic and argument theory might not be the way. For one, it’s probably just asking for them to get stalled in the sort of dunning kruger zone of identifying fallacies and stopping there.

Especially when such behavior is already endemic to the internet and many platforms have feedback loops designed to reward this behavior. Just dunk on 'em and move on - watch the upvotes and retweets roll in.

I definitely don’t want discourage OP from learning anything, but I do want to be careful in what direction we point a beginner.

I think maybe learning to find good sources of information and verify claims might be a better first step. That doesn’t give OP any shortcuts I’m discussions, which is good. Then they may begin to notice different patterns or forms of discussion and at that point they can start to classify them and learn about them if they see fit.

Agreed. OP should be working on critical thinking skills in general and not specifically focusing on logical fallacies.

Logical fallacies and argumentation theory in general certainly have their place. But unless you’re taking part in a debate club or otherwise getting really really deep into these topics, they may do you more harm than good in thinking critically and having productive discussions.

The reddit (and, previously, slashdot) obsession with logical fallacies has been almost entirely as a way to prevent critical thinking and end discussion rather than promoting either.

When you sign up [for Mastodon], you join a server (called an “instance”), which resembles a forum and is based around a shared interest.

What an incredibly ineffective and possibly outright misleading way to describe that.

I have no illusions that if Facebook and Google had started with proprietary and non-interoperable chat systems that XMPP would be flourishing today. I think that, by and large, we’d be in the same place with it.

People chatting from XMPP to Facebook to chat with folks probably by and large would’ve gotten Facebook accounts for the non-chat functionality that was never interoperable and not part of real time chat communication. Think groups and events.

If you only interacted with Facebook people over XMPP, you were locked out of a huge portion of functionality unless you signed up for Facebook even while XMPP worked.

A lot of people are focused on “extend” in the vein of Facebook and Google playing fast and loose with the XMPP spec and implementation until the whole ecosystem got fucked and then walking away. Which is a real danger. I mean, in a lot of ways Mastodon itself has already proven that. How much fedi drama over the years has been caused by Masoton unilaterally deciding something that other AP microblogging platforms just needed to deal with? Lots of people have beef with Eugen for a reason.

But even more insidious than that will be luring people onto Threads for ancillary benefits and then cutting off that large swath of the fediverse after the drain is complete. Then we would definitely not “end up exactly where we are now.”

Imagine in 3 years. “Ohh threads supports a live chat thread feature but those threads don’t federate. My friends are gonna do one while they all watch the season finale of Marvel Bullshit Infinity. Guess I could sign up for Threads to take part. Hmm I can still follow all my friends in the broader fediverse from here, I can just make this my primary account. Scratch that I’ll make this my only account. Oh, what Threads is turning off federation? Oops sorry everyone else I have no way to reach you anymore, maybe you can switch to threads?”

So my two theories are:

• This was a rushed launch to capitalize on the latest Twitter shit show and the home timeline wasn’t done yet.
• They didn’t want people to log into Threads and see nothing if none of their other follows have activated yet, so instead they force you to see everything so you don’t run out of content and disengage.

Either way I’d expect to see it soon.

Yeah that makes sense. I don’t have an insta or facebook account, so I don’t know what-all information you can fill in there. But it makes more sense than “any website or app with a freetext box must say they collect any possible data.”

I’m curious, I’ve never released a mobile app nor had to write a privacy policy.

When the privacy controls says it collects health information and sensitive info, is that because I can put that information in posts that I make and by definition of posting it, Meta has access to it? Or does it indicate specific data collection (somehow) or processing of submitted posts to collect that data from prose?

That is, if I were to post “I am an atheist and have a prescription for a daily control inhaler” does that constitute beehaw processing sensitive information and health information from me? Or does that just fall under general “user content” and the specific categories must come from somewhere specific?

Let’s say you run a moderately successful flea market. You own a moderately sized field. You employ a staff of accountable organizers to vet and select your vendors to ensure they aren’t selling anything you don’t want at your market (say Nazi paraphernalia, guns). You have security staff and volunteers at the event itself to ensure vendors and customers are safe - they ensure vendors aren’t selling anything they shouldn’t be, they ensure customers don’t try to steal or assault your vendors, they make sure nobody accidentally sets the field on fire, they manage the parking lot and portapotties.

A collective of artisans admire your success and buy up an adjacent field. While your flea market focuses on second hand and vintage goods, they want somewhere to sell handmade things. The organizers of your event work with the organizers of that event to share strategies and ensure both markets can reasonably remain safe and popular. Since they by and large hold themselves to the same standards as you, you agree to share a parking lot and build paths between your two fields.

A local farmers co-op eventually joins your meta-organization in the same way to offer fresh meat and produce.

Now you have a bustling megamarket. The billionaire that owns the local mall sees a drop in revenue due to folks going to the fields for secondhand clothes, fresh produce, and local art. People aren’t shopping with you as much anymore.

The billionaire comes up with a plan to recapture the market. Open air markets in fields are popular now? The billionaire buys the rest of the farmland around your fields and flattens it. They pour a paved parking lot with a dedicated interchange with the local highway. They promise a mix of big corporate vendors and allow smaller vendors to set up their own tents and sell right alongside everyone else.

You think, wow this is a great opportunity to grow all of our markets even more. You start building pathways from your field into the billionaire’s field so customers can easily get between your markets.

But soon, you start to notice something. People start parking at the billionaire’s field because it is paved and has easy highway access. Some of your vendors have started pulling out of your markets so they can go set up at the billionaire’s field so folks see their tent before they have spent all their money. Vendors who don’t move start having to pull out as the market is no longer worth their time or money. With fewer vendors, even more people avoid your fields and stay in the billionaire’s field.

And you start to notice something else. The billionaire started posting folks at the oath between your fields. Your markets have a few vendors the billionaire and their corporate vendors deem unsavory - erotic art, microbrewed beer, that sort of thing. They won’t allow in any customers who have bought anything from those vendors because they run a family friendly establishment. Soon, the people who still come to your side of the field are avoiding those vendors.

You notice an additional thing. The billionaire isn’t as diligent at vendor management as you are, especially with the amount of resources they’re using making sure nobody is carrying around erotic art from your market. While the side of the field near the parking lot where all the corporate vendors are is bright and shiny, you’ve noticed some questionable things happening near your side of the field. The antiques dealer is selling Nazi paraphernalia. The information tent for the local gun club has started to sell firearms with no background checks. The carnival toy vendor is secretly selling opiates. Folks who shop there keep trying to get into your markets and your security folks are having a hard time keeping a handle on things. You don’t have the resources to screen everyone who comes in. You end up having to fence off your paths to prevent folks coming from that market from causing harm to your vendors and customers.

But by this point most of your customers are accustomed to using the fancy parking lot and shopping with the corporate vendors. They’re confronted with a decision: do they just keep going to the billionaire’s field and get their clothes from the TJ Maxx tent or are they willing to make two stops so they can still peruse the cute vintage clothing?

Driving all the way around the fields to get to the other parking lot is pretty inconvenient so don’t bother. Eventually you can’t make the property tax payments for your field and you have to sell. The dream is done. The billionaire buys up the fields and expands their market.

Now rewind. You are an enthusiastic customer of the farmer’s market. How do you feel about the billionaire’s plan to buy up adjacent farmland?

(I was not able to work in a metaphor for meta “extending” activitypub with “new features” that aren’t part of the spec and forcing the rest of the fediverse to comply or get left behind)