One of many reasons for this could be your choice of topics, the location of the argument, and your perception. Any Centrists in the argument may be on your side of that particular issue and therefore are appearing left-leaning to you at the moment.
You not looking for them does not mean that they are not there. Them not coming out and identifying themselves continually does not mean they are not there.
Just like anything in science, your perception is not reality, especially when it seems that you are looking to enforce an opinion, not find the truth.
Most of the Centrists I’ve spoken to also tend to argue the issue, and not the side. They see sides and at-all-costs group membership as a form of lunacy.
I mean I only ever see the ones arguing with leftists actually admitting to being centrist, so if what you’re saying is true then maybe the centrist arguing with rightists should consider improving their PR by being more vocal about it. Because y’all only ever seem to bring up your political affiliation when arguing with one particular side, so no wonder you’ve developed a reputation based on that.
They don’t have PR. They’re not a cohesive unit. I don’t generally even like calling myself Centrist because I hate labels and don’t like the way they encourage group-think. There’s probably scads of Centrists I wouldn’t get along with as well.
Yet you clearly identify as a centrist based on your comments on this thread. They’re just as much a unit as the right or left based on how they behave and act on their political beliefs. Either you identify with centrists, in which case it’s up to you to be the change you want to see in their reputation, or you don’t, in which case their reputation shouldn’t reflect on you.
I don’t like people making baseless accusations. I defend people on all sides when people are wrong about their opposition. I hate it when people think they know what others think and project incorrect (and often evil) bullshit on each other. It’s important to be right with the right reasoning and conclusion, not just one or the other.
I care when Christians purposely mischaracterize Muslims, and I am neither of those groups. I hate people being wilfully wrong because their group fetishizes a certain angle of the truth instead of the boring reality of the situation.
Ideas are important and I don’t feel we can get out of the current shitty slump we’re in politically unless we clearly identify and discuss the world. Labels and group membership make that harder to do.
So no, I don’t really identify as a Centrist, but you may think I am. I don’t “identify” as anything. I am me and I’m more complex than a few easy labels for you to slap on. Labels make it easier to dismiss people and ignore their words.
If I took the label Centrist, then that means I take the baggage you hold for the word, and I abjectly refuse to do so.
But you’re not just defending centrists, you’re responding to claims people make about centrists by saying “but I’m not like that so obviously not all centrists are like that”. Your reply to pthaloblue elsewhere in the thread is an example of this. You clearly present yourself as a centrist there in direct response to someone talking about centrists. You seem to be arguing about this from the point of view of someone who feels like they’re being personally attacked even though based on the actual beliefs you’ve mentioned and your own dislike of labels by all accounts you’re not a centrist and thus not an example of what centrists are like.
Centrists lack gumption. They lack imagination. You propose anything that exists outside of the current capitalist hellhole that we live in, and they will be the first to argue “but what about jobs? What about the economy?”
This planet will be covered in arctic floodwater and the centrists will be too concerned about making sure we have a fair argument about it.
You are casting a broad (and incorrect) net over a wide swath of people.
I would make none of those arguments you proposed.
I have a very strong environmental bent. I feel the world should be made uncomfortable now to avoid apocalypse. I would break apart mon- di- and even tri- opolies. I would overhaul the copyright system to enhance competition specifically because we’re in a period where small companies are not capable or competing in the arenas that megacorps do. I would remove loopholes from tax and legal laws.
I would enforce corporations cleaning up after their messes. If that cleanup is too expensive for them to bear, then they should not be making those messes to begin with.
I would also refuse immigration from countries with more population than can be supported. I would push for a more cyclical global economy instead of relying on inter-governmental debt spirals. I would implement UBI.
I meet none of the standards you have laid out.
Who are you to tell me what I am, other than confidently incorrect?
That ain’t centrism, that’s neoliberalism. Go forth and be the best neoliberal you can be, I guess. But when the chuds start calling you a socialist, for proposing what seems reasonable to you, don’t back down!
One of many reasons for this could be your choice of topics, the location of the argument, and your perception. Any Centrists in the argument may be on your side of that particular issue and therefore are appearing left-leaning to you at the moment.
You not looking for them does not mean that they are not there. Them not coming out and identifying themselves continually does not mean they are not there.
Just like anything in science, your perception is not reality, especially when it seems that you are looking to enforce an opinion, not find the truth.
Most of the Centrists I’ve spoken to also tend to argue the issue, and not the side. They see sides and at-all-costs group membership as a form of lunacy.
I mean I only ever see the ones arguing with leftists actually admitting to being centrist, so if what you’re saying is true then maybe the centrist arguing with rightists should consider improving their PR by being more vocal about it. Because y’all only ever seem to bring up your political affiliation when arguing with one particular side, so no wonder you’ve developed a reputation based on that.
They don’t have PR. They’re not a cohesive unit. I don’t generally even like calling myself Centrist because I hate labels and don’t like the way they encourage group-think. There’s probably scads of Centrists I wouldn’t get along with as well.
Yet you clearly identify as a centrist based on your comments on this thread. They’re just as much a unit as the right or left based on how they behave and act on their political beliefs. Either you identify with centrists, in which case it’s up to you to be the change you want to see in their reputation, or you don’t, in which case their reputation shouldn’t reflect on you.
I don’t like people making baseless accusations. I defend people on all sides when people are wrong about their opposition. I hate it when people think they know what others think and project incorrect (and often evil) bullshit on each other. It’s important to be right with the right reasoning and conclusion, not just one or the other.
I care when Christians purposely mischaracterize Muslims, and I am neither of those groups. I hate people being wilfully wrong because their group fetishizes a certain angle of the truth instead of the boring reality of the situation.
Ideas are important and I don’t feel we can get out of the current shitty slump we’re in politically unless we clearly identify and discuss the world. Labels and group membership make that harder to do.
So no, I don’t really identify as a Centrist, but you may think I am. I don’t “identify” as anything. I am me and I’m more complex than a few easy labels for you to slap on. Labels make it easier to dismiss people and ignore their words.
If I took the label Centrist, then that means I take the baggage you hold for the word, and I abjectly refuse to do so.
But you’re not just defending centrists, you’re responding to claims people make about centrists by saying “but I’m not like that so obviously not all centrists are like that”. Your reply to pthaloblue elsewhere in the thread is an example of this. You clearly present yourself as a centrist there in direct response to someone talking about centrists. You seem to be arguing about this from the point of view of someone who feels like they’re being personally attacked even though based on the actual beliefs you’ve mentioned and your own dislike of labels by all accounts you’re not a centrist and thus not an example of what centrists are like.
Centrists lack gumption. They lack imagination. You propose anything that exists outside of the current capitalist hellhole that we live in, and they will be the first to argue “but what about jobs? What about the economy?”
This planet will be covered in arctic floodwater and the centrists will be too concerned about making sure we have a fair argument about it.
“Both sidesism” will be the death of us all.
You are casting a broad (and incorrect) net over a wide swath of people.
I would make none of those arguments you proposed.
I have a very strong environmental bent. I feel the world should be made uncomfortable now to avoid apocalypse. I would break apart mon- di- and even tri- opolies. I would overhaul the copyright system to enhance competition specifically because we’re in a period where small companies are not capable or competing in the arenas that megacorps do. I would remove loopholes from tax and legal laws.
I would enforce corporations cleaning up after their messes. If that cleanup is too expensive for them to bear, then they should not be making those messes to begin with.
I would also refuse immigration from countries with more population than can be supported. I would push for a more cyclical global economy instead of relying on inter-governmental debt spirals. I would implement UBI.
I meet none of the standards you have laid out.
Who are you to tell me what I am, other than confidently incorrect?
That ain’t centrism, that’s neoliberalism. Go forth and be the best neoliberal you can be, I guess. But when the chuds start calling you a socialist, for proposing what seems reasonable to you, don’t back down!
Maybe, but I wouldn’t use the label. I want them to fight the ideas, not dismiss the label. Makes for better conversation.