Some of the trees kept voting for the axe not because they thought it was one of them, but because they realized its opponent, the chainsaw, would do more damage more quickly.
I was literally making a sarcastic version of this comment when I saw yours. lol
“Maybe if we’re really good and vote for the axe enough, one day it won’t cut us down anymore! and you can’t let the chainsaw win!”
If the axe isn’t going to stop cutting down us trees, we gotta stop voting for it. And if that means a bunch of us will get chainsawed before the trees care enough to smash the chainsaws and the axes, that’s on the chainsaws and the axes.
Stretching the metaphor to its limit: I hate the trees that blame the trees that won’t help the tools cut us down (and legitimizing them by voting for them is helping them…maybe you think it’s worth it, but it does help).
I’d rather help the axe by voting for them than help the chainsaw by not.
Wishing that a better alternative exists does not make it so. We currently lack enough trees that care enough to smash the axes and chainsaws; that will take actual time and effort to cultivate. Time that we buy by making sure the axes beat the chainsaws for now.
It’s not about waiting for the day the axes have a change of heart, it’s about making sure we survive long enough to create an alternative powerful enough to depose both tools.
Maybe…but we’ve had a lot of time and effort put into raising tree consciousness. And I’m not saying we should do any less (that’s where my focus is still!), but I’m not wasting any time on axes to get another two years…four years…whatever.
IDK whether I believe this, but it might be the chainsaws will get the trees to care. 4 people died in the Kent State Massacre, and it got millions into the streets.
Anyway, have at it! If you think it helps, I think that’s great.
“Maybe if far greater numbers suffer, people will finally wake up” is an insane take. Accelerationists always feel so confident that it will be others paying the price.
People are suffering now. The chainsaws are killing people in the street and putting people in concentration camps. Those people are not acceptable sacrifices to me.
We get one of the two. When enough trees care to find an alternative, you’ll have a point. But saying both are unacceptable has yet to prevent one of the two.
So would you rather sacrifice fewer until we can figure out how to sacrifice none, or is the greater sacrifice acceptable because at least you can say you didn’t do it?
Sure, sure. For what it’s worth, nobody’s talking about “far greater numbers suffering.” kent state was a handful of privileged people. Like…there was less energy protesting in respect of the 30-odd folks ICE killed last year than the handful of privileged folks killed recently. And yeah accelerationists are generally white privileged people, so they’re probably right that it will be others paying the price (and that’s a bad thing…as a white privileged person I’d feel more amenable to accelerationism if I could guarantee it’s only me and people like me that would suffer the consequences, rather than things getting worse for the most-oppressed). To be clear I don’t think not voting for democrats is an accelerationist position lol. Voting for republicans certainly would be.
As I said, I’m not an accelerationist, but at least it puts a silver lining on the inevitable suffering. I’m gonna focus on what I can focus on.
Of course the “axes” were killing people in the street and putting people in concentration camps when they were in power, and will be again after the “chainsaws” are out (granted, the axes are quieter about it). And I don’t think those people are acceptable sacrifices either.
So what do you do? You go advocate for voting for the axes, that’s fine. I’m gonna keep running my little organizing workshops. Neither of us will do it ourselves, so go for the variety I guess.
What what? (I gotta drop the analogy here…the axes here are the democrats :P )
Sorry, did you think Trump invented ICE detention centers? that the state didn’t kill people under Biden? that anyone deported more folks than Obama?
I’m sure you don’t think that, you seem bright! but I don’t know what “uh, what?” means here.
Like…okay, if you weren’t paying attention before the masked fascist goons started shooting white people in the street…I guess lots of people weren’t…but now you’re paying attention…go look, man. Where the democrats are better it’s a matter of degree, not of kind. Kids in cages was an Obama policy. Biden increased federal spending on police after george floyd was murdered (and keep going back, it gets worse not better!).
And that’s before we even consider foreign policy…I’m sure I don’t gotta tell you democrats are knee-deep in every horror. But let’s keep it simple and assume only people in the US count at all.
Obama wasn’t separating families, Trump is. The masks are new. The conditions in holding facilities are new. The mass pardons are new. The election interference is new.
Sure, you can argue that it’s just a matter of degree, but it’s a wide margin. We don’t have to ignore foreign policy. The Democrats certainly have their sins, but again the difference is wide. That’s why I compared axes to chainsaws. They both do damage, but one does much more damage and faster.
You don’t vote for the axe because it’s good, you vote for the axe because the chainsaw is worse and the trees haven’t reached the point where they can ensure another alternative. I absolutely agree we should be building towards an alternative, but that’s a long term goal a century in the making. Ignoring the short term isn’t going to help being out about any faster.
Not only is there the damage to consider, but the direction of that damage. Left wing groups are being targeted as terrorist organizations. That’s not just the chainsaws taking down trees, that’s the chainsaws targeting the very trees who are trying to wake up the other trees.
Some of the trees kept voting for the axe not because they thought it was one of them, but because they realized its opponent, the chainsaw, would do more damage more quickly.
I was literally making a sarcastic version of this comment when I saw yours. lol
“Maybe if we’re really good and vote for the axe enough, one day it won’t cut us down anymore! and you can’t let the chainsaw win!”
If the axe isn’t going to stop cutting down us trees, we gotta stop voting for it. And if that means a bunch of us will get chainsawed before the trees care enough to smash the chainsaws and the axes, that’s on the chainsaws and the axes.
Stretching the metaphor to its limit: I hate the trees that blame the trees that won’t help the tools cut us down (and legitimizing them by voting for them is helping them…maybe you think it’s worth it, but it does help).
I’d rather help the axe by voting for them than help the chainsaw by not.
Wishing that a better alternative exists does not make it so. We currently lack enough trees that care enough to smash the axes and chainsaws; that will take actual time and effort to cultivate. Time that we buy by making sure the axes beat the chainsaws for now.
It’s not about waiting for the day the axes have a change of heart, it’s about making sure we survive long enough to create an alternative powerful enough to depose both tools.
Maybe…but we’ve had a lot of time and effort put into raising tree consciousness. And I’m not saying we should do any less (that’s where my focus is still!), but I’m not wasting any time on axes to get another two years…four years…whatever.
IDK whether I believe this, but it might be the chainsaws will get the trees to care. 4 people died in the Kent State Massacre, and it got millions into the streets.
Anyway, have at it! If you think it helps, I think that’s great.
“Maybe if far greater numbers suffer, people will finally wake up” is an insane take. Accelerationists always feel so confident that it will be others paying the price.
People are suffering now. The chainsaws are killing people in the street and putting people in concentration camps. Those people are not acceptable sacrifices to me.
. . . But the ones killed by the axe are acceptable sacrifices to you?
We get one of the two. When enough trees care to find an alternative, you’ll have a point. But saying both are unacceptable has yet to prevent one of the two.
So would you rather sacrifice fewer until we can figure out how to sacrifice none, or is the greater sacrifice acceptable because at least you can say you didn’t do it?
I would rather seek to violently destroy the axe and chainsaw, rather than help either.
Voting isn’t a solution to the problem.
Yes but until you can accomplish what you seek, we’re getting one of the two. Not helping either doesn’t stop them.
Voting isn’t a solution to the problem. It is a delay tactic to buy time necessary to develop and implement the solution.
Sure, sure. For what it’s worth, nobody’s talking about “far greater numbers suffering.” kent state was a handful of privileged people. Like…there was less energy protesting in respect of the 30-odd folks ICE killed last year than the handful of privileged folks killed recently. And yeah accelerationists are generally white privileged people, so they’re probably right that it will be others paying the price (and that’s a bad thing…as a white privileged person I’d feel more amenable to accelerationism if I could guarantee it’s only me and people like me that would suffer the consequences, rather than things getting worse for the most-oppressed). To be clear I don’t think not voting for democrats is an accelerationist position lol. Voting for republicans certainly would be.
As I said, I’m not an accelerationist, but at least it puts a silver lining on the inevitable suffering. I’m gonna focus on what I can focus on.
Of course the “axes” were killing people in the street and putting people in concentration camps when they were in power, and will be again after the “chainsaws” are out (granted, the axes are quieter about it). And I don’t think those people are acceptable sacrifices either.
So what do you do? You go advocate for voting for the axes, that’s fine. I’m gonna keep running my little organizing workshops. Neither of us will do it ourselves, so go for the variety I guess.
Uh, what?
You do both. That’s what I do.
What what? (I gotta drop the analogy here…the axes here are the democrats :P )
Sorry, did you think Trump invented ICE detention centers? that the state didn’t kill people under Biden? that anyone deported more folks than Obama?
I’m sure you don’t think that, you seem bright! but I don’t know what “uh, what?” means here.
Like…okay, if you weren’t paying attention before the masked fascist goons started shooting white people in the street…I guess lots of people weren’t…but now you’re paying attention…go look, man. Where the democrats are better it’s a matter of degree, not of kind. Kids in cages was an Obama policy. Biden increased federal spending on police after george floyd was murdered (and keep going back, it gets worse not better!).
And that’s before we even consider foreign policy…I’m sure I don’t gotta tell you democrats are knee-deep in every horror. But let’s keep it simple and assume only people in the US count at all.
Obama wasn’t separating families, Trump is. The masks are new. The conditions in holding facilities are new. The mass pardons are new. The election interference is new.
Sure, you can argue that it’s just a matter of degree, but it’s a wide margin. We don’t have to ignore foreign policy. The Democrats certainly have their sins, but again the difference is wide. That’s why I compared axes to chainsaws. They both do damage, but one does much more damage and faster.
You don’t vote for the axe because it’s good, you vote for the axe because the chainsaw is worse and the trees haven’t reached the point where they can ensure another alternative. I absolutely agree we should be building towards an alternative, but that’s a long term goal a century in the making. Ignoring the short term isn’t going to help being out about any faster.
Not only is there the damage to consider, but the direction of that damage. Left wing groups are being targeted as terrorist organizations. That’s not just the chainsaws taking down trees, that’s the chainsaws targeting the very trees who are trying to wake up the other trees.