From my reading I don’t think it is possible, but I’m open to learning how one can achieve a zero carbohydrate diet using only plant foods. @Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com has graciously offered to look into the matter.

Motivation - Why zero carb matters:

  • Carbohydrates end up in the blood stream as glucose
  • blood glucose is a direct driver of insulin
  • persistently elevated insulin is a serious health concern
  • cancers can only metabolize glucose, and cannot perform oxidative phosphorylation - i.e. they only run on glucose, so carbohydrates feed cancers.

why chronic hyperinsulinemia is bad:

  • type 2 diabetes
  • high blood pressure
  • atherosclerosis
  • pcos
  • visceral fat
  • ectopic fat (i.e. snoring)

Functional differences between pbf and abf:

  • plant sterols interfere with human cholesterol signaling, we are made of cholesterol, this leads to higher inflammation and lower ldl (that is actually a bad thing)
  • lectins and inflammation - most pbf have lectins inside of them, these lectins bind to cells throughout the body which leads to autoimmune responses (from mild inflammation, to full anaphylactic shock)

nice to have’s on a zero carb diet:

  • local food that doesn’t have to be shipped around the world
  • regenerative agriculture, there is no top soil without ruminants
  • farming without external inputs like industrial fertilizer
  • food without pesticide residue
  • jet@hackertalks.comOPMEnglish
    2·
    1 month ago

    Yea I tend to go with the conclusions the experts in the field have made in the papers. I don’t try to rebutt them or analyze them myself.

    That is just a appeal to authority, but fair enough, here are experts in the field rebutting the wikipedia page (which is edited by non-experts in the field) https://doi.org/10.1016/C2019-0-03604-7

    Happy to discus the 1400 page medical textbook with you at length.

    Or if you prefer something more wiki-like - https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/skeptical-doctors (again, experts in the field, practicing, and a full appeal to authority)

    Yea it’s been working really great for over a decade. So maybe I’m a bit biased because of that 😅

    I have no issue with your health choices, I take umbrage in you trying to warn people away from keto, which has significant metabolic advantages for people, using a very flawed mouse study where data in humans directly contradicts it. Appeal to authority or no, we have obligation to verify the things we amplify.

      • jet@hackertalks.comOPMEnglish
        2·
        1 month ago

        I mean scientists who study and publish peer reviewed research in this field.

        That is also what I provided you.

        wikipedia

        is edited by people who are not scientists and peer reviewed editors. It is cherry picked.

        The authorities I provided you are practicing metabolic researchers, who are peer reviewed (hence the doi link), and have large bodies of human patients to provide data from.

        non profits like nutritionfacts.org.

        Nutrition facts is a philosophically plant based organization and while they can be helpful we have to consider the bias that will bring to their selection of mater. They are NOT scientists, they are not doing active research, they are not practicing metabolic clinicians working with humans on ketogenic metabolic therapy.

        And my experience has been the same too.

        What experience was that? What happened to your metrics?

        That’s why I warn people off of it.

        I think it’s not great to drop papers like you read them (abstract and conclusions are opinions, not data, and really shouldn’t be presented as reading the paper), and are unwilling to engage in a discussion of the paper, and just want to repeat your talking point, or appeal to more papers without deep engagement. It feels like this dialog hasn’t helped either of us.

        I think I have detailed why your initial statement that keto impacts peoples ability to produce insulin is deeply flawed (especially in humans) and you haven’t engaged me on that, or disagreed, or agreed, just repeat your initial “warning” with a platitude that I can always switch to another diet when it stops working… I hope you can see why this is frustrating, your activity here feels performative just to get a dig into keto, and not actually caring about truth or nuance.

          • xep@discuss.onlineMEnglish
            2·
            1 month ago

            I’m sorry but go beyond physicians and therapies. Their job is not to maximize your healthspan. They are part of a system that wants to keep you on “treatment” and pills and barely functioning. They only care about MRR.

            You’ll find that this isn’t the case for most of the practitioners of metabolic health. Many of them, such as Dr Ken Berry (Pre-diabetes), Dr Paul Mason (Pre-diabetes, NAFLD), Dr David Unwin (Diabetes, Type 2), or Dr Christopher Palmer (lost parent to bipolar disorder) came to practice this because of problems with their health, and are genuinely interested in helping their patients get better. A large part of metabolic health involves getting patients off their medication.

            It could be interesting for you to see why we are such proponents of low/zero carb. I think you might enjoy some of their talks. Here’s Dr David Unwin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoCzm9-J_Ok