Indeed. Eating plants makes you resilient against many stresses at the cellular level. Hence the lower inflammation.

It’s basically like exercise but at a metabolic level.

Some plant compounds stress your body directly making it stronger long term.

Some plant compounds (polyphenols) signal the stresses the plant has experienced to our body. And our body prepares survival mechanisms against it.

This question is a perfect fit for the sub why all the downvotes?

it’s a 6 char expression arr[::-1] lol.

I agree that is the scientific method indeed.

I don’t know if you are being sarcastic. I’m pointing out the consequences of the scientific method and philosophy of science which is that the consensus is least likely to be wrong.

Great, provide the evidence, make a post about it, and most importantly engage in the discussion.

Consensus itself is evidence.

That’s not how it works. If you want to say something against the scientific consensus the burden of proof falls on you. You should publish papers, get them peer peviewed and change the mind of the consensus. Oh wait you are not qualified for it. You’d rather discuss it on the internet and get offended when someone points out that you’re wrong.

Don’t cite shit you don’t care about. Dr Greger is…

Lol I know that Dr Greger owns nf. I just sent nf because he makes the risks of keto easy to understand for the general public like you.

I don’t care about his website or opinions. I think this is the 3rd time I’m repeating it. I care about the citations to papers on these websites which have the reasons. And they were strong enough to sway the consensus.

Whether you or I know these reasons or can “refute” them is irrelevant.

drop a paper in a conversation as a “I win mechanic”

I just sent it as an example. you don’t win by just one paper. The one I value the most is the scientific consensus.

Maybe I should have dropped the wiki article directly which you can’t dispute. It was a mistake on my part.

Anyone well versed in the scientic method and philosophy of science knows that the consensus is statistically the least likely to be wrong.

There are long term risks to a keto diet that people need to be aware of. Period.

If it’s working for you then fair enough, good for you. I am not against it.

I don’t care much about that one paper or Dr Greger which you have spent all the time addressing.

That’s right I prefer “eat the rich”.

discuss things with me openly and honestly

I don’t think I’ve been dishonest which you keep accusing me of. It’s only that you want to discuss the content of the papers and I am not interested.

I was taking the simpler and better path by pointing to the consensus of experts which wikipedia normally represents. And I’ve cited the Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy why it’s a valid path of inquiry.

I also have a bevy of research scientists and medical doctors

Consensus beats a minority position among experts. I don’t dispute there are short term benefits to keto. That’s been proven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus

may not be the best at English, but yes, you did.

I’m not the best at english either. If something stops working, it can start working too. I didn’t say it stops working permanently. At least that was my intention.

2 days ago, you are the one necroing a old post to continue a unproductive discussion

It just showed up in my feed c/all, active. It’s not necro posting then is it as proven by lemmy’s algorithm?

glycation damage

It’s nice in theory but you have to prove that it’s significant on a wfpb diets which I am on and significant among all other factors that are working to age you and kill you. Spoilers: it’s not.

I respect you, and I want to thank you for taking the time to raise your concerns.

Same.

last few of our interactions frustrating and unproductive

As I said before I trust unbiased, non-profit sources wikipedia and the conclusions drawn by the actual scientists writing the papers over the “analysis and rebuttals” some drunk down the street.

Which you conveniently skipped past. So I assume you’re not an expert in this field. You are likely an IT guy with some data science or ml background if I were to guess.

welcome to ask this particular sample anything you like

Thanks. I’m curious. What benefits did you get from being on a low carb diet? Is your mood and exercise performance to your liking? Any adverse effects? What does your diet look like each day?

Likewise. You can ask me anything about my diet / lifestyle.

I’m able to fast for 5 days

🙌 It’s expected because keto diets mimic a fast but not fully. You are adapted to using fat as fuel.

My post was about metabolic flexibility. being able to handle a 7 day water fast just as well as a rare sugary treat because accidents happen and being resilient to many forms of environmental stresses is key to longevity and healthspan.

A large part of metabolic health involves getting patients off their medication.

That’s great. 🙌 I really enjoyed Dr David Unwin’s talk.

how the literature can be weaponized to say things like

I never claimed the glucose intolerance was permanent. I even gave my reason why it’s not ideal (though temporary)

I said if you are not metabolically flexible even mundane things like tasting a donut on a long term keto diet can be dangerous.

Why do you still keep posting it so many times?

I like option 1 with browser-like history grouped by date. It includes titles of posts, communities, users, and instances visited, searches made etc in a list. (All clickable)

So you can trace back your actions and not lose anything.

Be evil!

is edited by people who are not scientists

I’m not citing wikipedia or nutritionfacts.org but the citations within them.

Aren’t your links or books cherry picked? Aren’t they made by doctors who make money off of you?

abstract and conclusions are opinions, not data

Expert opinions and conclusions are better than that of a drunk down the street. What are your qualifications?

keto impacts peoples ability to produce insulin

We discussed it. You said it goes back to normal after 1-3 days in humans. I said okay I will send you another study when I find it. (I remember reading it before)

What experience was that?

Long story short. I didn’t feel like a healthy human being on keto as I am now. I’m talking about all kinds of subjective and objective metrics—mood, energy levels, physical strength, VO2 max, BP, cholesterol, body fat percent, blood sugar etc.

I’m sorry but go beyond physicians and therapies. Their job is not to maximize your healthspan. They are part of a system that wants to keep you on “treatment” and pills and barely functioning. They only care about MRR.

That is just a appeal to authority

Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy—appeal to authority is only fallacious when the authority in question is not an actual authority.

By experts I don’t mean physicians or doctors. I mean scientists who study and publish peer reviewed research in this field.

Diet doctor and TCR book

I prefer wikipedia or non profits like nutritionfacts.org. And they are full of sources that conclude keto is bad long term. And my experience has been the same too. That’s why I warn people off of it.

I’m not going to read them on your behalf

Yea I tend to go with the conclusions the experts in the field have made in the papers. I don’t try to rebutt them or analyze them myself.

if whatever your doing is working for you, no worries.

Yea it’s been working really great for over a decade. So maybe I’m a bit biased because of that 😅

I read your rebuttal now. I remember reading somewhere else too about the glucose intolerance. If I find it I’ll post it here.

Do you have any references on liver and kidney issues cause by low blood sugar?

The wiki article has some references in the health aspects and safety section.

But yea you can always switch to other diets if it doesn’t work or face any issues. So it’s alright!

Actually, it’s always happening, even if you’re eating a bunch of carbs.

Yep but the amount varies based on how much is needed to maintain blood glucose levels. Gluconeogenesis occurs in high amounts during the conditions I mentioned.

kidneys are functioning

Kidneys can’t clean up everything. For example they do get rid of some excess blood sugar but not enough to bring it to normal levels.

We see on keto that liver and kidney issues resolve quickly

These issues are different from those caused by hyperinsulinemia.

I don’t know if you saw my big writeup of your paper in this post

The 1st paper observed glucose intolerance in mice who were on a keto diet. (Title)

But even if we accept that the pancreas stops keeping a cache of insulin and recovers within days. That’s still not ideal. I prefer to be metabolically flexible and robust. Even if I eat 300g sugar one day or starve for a week on rare occasions it shouldn’t affect me much.

Update:

kudos on mentioning the innuit. I guess some people have found a way to survive on a low carb diet for months at a time.

My understanding is that gluconeogenesis occurs during starvation and intense exercise.

So it’s a mechanism that isn’t built for the long term. We come out of starvation (or die) and stop exercising.

We never had low carb diets during evolution. So we never got efficient and clean at digesting and metabolizing fats and proteins into carbs / energy.

Most of the long term harm is due to accumulation of metabolites, stress on the liver and kidneys.

And you eventually develop glucose intolerance because of the law of use and disuse. So someone who’s on a low carb diet for a long time tastes a donut and can experience a medical emergency.