My first experience with Pen&Papers was on a summer camp, where a bunch of older guys were mastering RPGs for us. They didn’t use any kind of rules system, and just told us to describe what we’re trying to do and they would roll a D10 and just kind of improvise from there.
I’m really glad they did that, because it made us, teens having their first experience with Pen&Paper, focus much more on roleplaying rather than rules and numbers. And even when I later switched to rule-based systems, this experience has stuck with me, and all of my friends who played there too, and even though we did have rules and numbers now, we still kept focusing on the RP side and never really paid them much attention.
I’ve once played with a new group of people at my new job, who were obviously used to playing with rules, and it was such a massive difference in how they approached the game. They usually thought and talked about numbers first, and then figured out some kind of RP to go with it, but it should be the other way around! The game felt so bland, most of the talk was OOC, and it just felt more like a board game than a Pen&Paper.
So, in my opinion, as much rolls as possible should just be done by the GM without the knowledge of the player. It just makes the experience a lot better. Even though I’m actively trying to pay no mind to the dice rolls when playing, and have no problem with separating IC and OOC knowledge, playing to entertain and not to win, just seeing that failed perception/WP roll will nag you and influence you, no matter how you try to avoid it. It’s better to just not know. If it would be feasible, I’d preffer for the DM to do all rolls in secret, and handle each players rules, just asking them for reaction if it’s appropriate. But that would be almost impossible and put a lot of strain on the already busy GM.
But, if you’ve never tried it, try running a session with no rules, and GM just rolling D10 and improvising of the number he gets, based on the action you’re describing. It’s a lot more fun, and especially for new players, it teaches them an important aspect of the Pen & Paper RPGs - the rules and numbers are there as an afterthought, you are not supposed to think or talk about them. You are supposed to live and roleplay the character, describe his actions, and cooperate with others to build a nice and immersive story. And if it turns out that what you just described is something your character is bad at? Who cares, it’s going to be fun.
This is basically the idea behind lasers&feelings and all of its hacks. The setting is a well known TV (or book) universe, and the rules are stripped down to the bone (the whole game fits in one page).
It really puts the role playingback into role playing games.
Its such a different experience compared to rules-heavy RPGs. Everyone should try it at least once, just to get a glimpse of what RPGs should be about, especially when starting. Its really sad when i play with players who spent most of the game talking about numbers and action names, and almost never RP.
Im not saying that its not possible to RP with a rules heavy game, and ive met a lot of amazing players who still put RP first, but for a lot of new players it can be hard to get used to it, and the rules and numbers take away the focus from it, to the point where they tend to play it as a regular board game, not realizing thats not what it is about.
This requires a lot more trust than I usually have for the other players. I especially don’t trust that the average GM is going to be consistent and agreeable.
The rules feel like they came out of resolving “you hit me” “no you didn’t” playground games.
There are rules light games like Fate Accelerated, or lighter ones I don’t know, that can be fun without it being entirely the DM says stuff.
It is difficult for the GM, that’s for sure. I was never competitive, so I didn’t mind just loosing for the sake of story or wasn’t invested in my character performing well - quite the contrary, I’ve always enjoyed underpowered RP characters more than all-powerful warriors, and just having one D10 to worry about introduced just enough randomness for it to still be interressting with critical misses, while also letting the GM to give us an experience that would be fun and enjoyable, because there are no rules that would say “you can’t do this”. And from my experience GMing one such game (on the same summer camp, once I was older), it’s surprisingly intuitive experience - I never really had to think about “Ok, how much for this skill check?”, but always just let them describe the action, roll, and then have a pretty clear gut feeling on whether it was enough or not. I was pretty nervous during that game, since it was one of my first time GMing and for people I didn’t know, and without a rule system to hide my decisions behind, but it just worked well and everyone enjoyed it.
But you are right, I now much more prefer some rules-light systems that give you and the GM at least some base to go on. Or Dread. Dread is the best system I’ve ever used, and to this day is one of my most favorite examples of unique and really clever game design.
My first experience with Pen&Papers was on a summer camp, where a bunch of older guys were mastering RPGs for us. They didn’t use any kind of rules system, and just told us to describe what we’re trying to do and they would roll a D10 and just kind of improvise from there.
I’m really glad they did that, because it made us, teens having their first experience with Pen&Paper, focus much more on roleplaying rather than rules and numbers. And even when I later switched to rule-based systems, this experience has stuck with me, and all of my friends who played there too, and even though we did have rules and numbers now, we still kept focusing on the RP side and never really paid them much attention.
I’ve once played with a new group of people at my new job, who were obviously used to playing with rules, and it was such a massive difference in how they approached the game. They usually thought and talked about numbers first, and then figured out some kind of RP to go with it, but it should be the other way around! The game felt so bland, most of the talk was OOC, and it just felt more like a board game than a Pen&Paper.
So, in my opinion, as much rolls as possible should just be done by the GM without the knowledge of the player. It just makes the experience a lot better. Even though I’m actively trying to pay no mind to the dice rolls when playing, and have no problem with separating IC and OOC knowledge, playing to entertain and not to win, just seeing that failed perception/WP roll will nag you and influence you, no matter how you try to avoid it. It’s better to just not know. If it would be feasible, I’d preffer for the DM to do all rolls in secret, and handle each players rules, just asking them for reaction if it’s appropriate. But that would be almost impossible and put a lot of strain on the already busy GM.
But, if you’ve never tried it, try running a session with no rules, and GM just rolling D10 and improvising of the number he gets, based on the action you’re describing. It’s a lot more fun, and especially for new players, it teaches them an important aspect of the Pen & Paper RPGs - the rules and numbers are there as an afterthought, you are not supposed to think or talk about them. You are supposed to live and roleplay the character, describe his actions, and cooperate with others to build a nice and immersive story. And if it turns out that what you just described is something your character is bad at? Who cares, it’s going to be fun.
This is basically the idea behind lasers&feelings and all of its hacks. The setting is a well known TV (or book) universe, and the rules are stripped down to the bone (the whole game fits in one page).
It really puts the role playingback into role playing games.
Its such a different experience compared to rules-heavy RPGs. Everyone should try it at least once, just to get a glimpse of what RPGs should be about, especially when starting. Its really sad when i play with players who spent most of the game talking about numbers and action names, and almost never RP.
Im not saying that its not possible to RP with a rules heavy game, and ive met a lot of amazing players who still put RP first, but for a lot of new players it can be hard to get used to it, and the rules and numbers take away the focus from it, to the point where they tend to play it as a regular board game, not realizing thats not what it is about.
This requires a lot more trust than I usually have for the other players. I especially don’t trust that the average GM is going to be consistent and agreeable.
The rules feel like they came out of resolving “you hit me” “no you didn’t” playground games.
There are rules light games like Fate Accelerated, or lighter ones I don’t know, that can be fun without it being entirely the DM says stuff.
It is difficult for the GM, that’s for sure. I was never competitive, so I didn’t mind just loosing for the sake of story or wasn’t invested in my character performing well - quite the contrary, I’ve always enjoyed underpowered RP characters more than all-powerful warriors, and just having one D10 to worry about introduced just enough randomness for it to still be interressting with critical misses, while also letting the GM to give us an experience that would be fun and enjoyable, because there are no rules that would say “you can’t do this”. And from my experience GMing one such game (on the same summer camp, once I was older), it’s surprisingly intuitive experience - I never really had to think about “Ok, how much for this skill check?”, but always just let them describe the action, roll, and then have a pretty clear gut feeling on whether it was enough or not. I was pretty nervous during that game, since it was one of my first time GMing and for people I didn’t know, and without a rule system to hide my decisions behind, but it just worked well and everyone enjoyed it.
But you are right, I now much more prefer some rules-light systems that give you and the GM at least some base to go on. Or Dread. Dread is the best system I’ve ever used, and to this day is one of my most favorite examples of unique and really clever game design.
When my cousin was a kid, we’d do this while going on walks. We’d do “rock paper scissors” instead of rolling dice.