The US is supporting Israel through what we can mostly all agree is a genocide of the Gazans. Clearly, Biden isn’t a genocidal maniac, yet he’s all in with unwavering support. Why are we doing this? There has to be a logical reason that isn’t just “we want Israel to kill everyone in Gaza and take their land a la lebensraum.”
We know this is an emotional topic, so please be respectful of each other so that we can have open and clear authentic discussion on the matter.
Nobody else has pointed out that theres roughly as many Jewish people in the US as in Israel. Which in the run-up to an election is not a voting base you would want to upset.
Jews are not a uniform voting bloc, divided on many issues, Israel being one of them.
In the 1980s through the aughts, it was a lot easier to turn a blind eye to the inhumane treatment of Palestinians because media agencies controlled the narrative. Once the internet allowed for unvetted video to leak the pubic have a better grasp on what is actually going on.
In other controversies, the ubiquity if phone cameras plays a significant part, but I don’t know how many phone cameras are in Palestine.
I think it is this, how the internet affects narratives of violence against oppressed peoples, that drives the save the kids from the internet policies like KOSA and SESTA/FOSTA. The US federal government doesn’t really care about children, but it does care about leaks that embarrass the administration or the state.
I think this is a good observation, though I’m not exactly sure how it applies to my comment, unless you’re trying to imply that people as a whole, Jews included, are more divided on Israel today than in the 80’s because they have better access to information from more varied perspectives.
I’d say that sounds true.
Never said that they were, but I imagine theres a notable percentage who would be very single issue on the subject.
And do Israeli people actually approve of this genocide?
A sizable portion does. And the whole political system is built such that the extremists get a disproportionate say in policy.
Several things to consider.
Much of the information the Israels get is controlled. Many probably aren’t aware how bad the genocide is (and the it is genocide).
Most Israels have been subject to ongoing missile attacks and bombings their whole lives. Everyone there knows someone hurt or killed in an attack. They just want it to stop.
I don’t say this to in any way condone the genocide. I’m fully against the genocide. But, this is a complex issue with a lot of factors on both sides that can drive normally reasonable people to do bad things.
Well if they want it to stop they sure have a funny way of showing it, what with all the new fighters they just made.
You can’t even really blame the ones that just signed up, if someone did to me what Israel did to them, I would have a rifle in my hands too
After 40+ years of missiles, it’s fair to say, the other options weren’t working either. The Israel extremists currently in charge, are trying to make it impossible for the few Palestines left to attack them. If you look at what they’re doing to Gaza, it is total scorched earth. There are no buildings left standing to launch missiles from.
Ultimately, I think your right, it’s just going to perpetuate the cycle.
Personally I don’t think there’s any hope for the area. You have two groups that want to destroy each other on every level. Religion sucks.
Other options being what? Occupation, apartheid, and oppression? That’s the only thing they’ve done. “We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”
ROFL, actually they tried being good neighbors. The other countries tried to wipe them off the planet multiple times.
What Israel is currently doing is horrible. But don’t act like they are some master evil here. There have been many times over the last 40-50 years where Israel has been open to peace and the current terrorist group (or neighboring country) at that time destroyed it. I mean Hamas’s FIRST article of their charter was the destruction of Israel.
BOTH SIDES, are evil here.
Yes, they were pretty good neighbors in the beginning, up until they started trying to take everyone’s land and set up a state in the middle of another state, or what should have been another state if Britain had kept their promise instead of fucking things up like Europe always does. That would start a war anywhere. Imagine if China carved out the Midwest of the US for the Uyghurs as a way to get rid of them with the excuse that they needed to be protected. It would be fine if a bunch moved there and bought houses, like normal refugees, but it’s a problem when the rest of the world decides Ohio is there’s now, especially when they defend it with right-wing paramilitaries as part of an active settler colonial project. And also especially when it caused the displacement of tens of thousands of people to Canada. Of course the US and Canada would retaliate, especially if they were never consulted on this “deal” in the first place. It wouldn’t matter if the UN said it was legal and all above board because a paper said so. People would be rightfully pissed off. Not because they were Islamaphobic but because their land was being taken, and not for anything they did, but because people in other parts of the world did genocide, now you and your grandparents lose their house.
Hamas was blowback from this process, as much as slave raids on innocent white households, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, violent resistance by the ANC in South Africa, or Native American raids. They didn’t even appear until 1987, decades after nearly hundreds of thousands had already died or been displaced. No wonder they have something against Israel. Terrorists aren’t great people, news flash, but Israel’s actions cause terrorists. And they prefer that. It gives them carte blanche to keep Palestinians divided and keep taking territory. It’s already been revealed that was Netanyahu’s strategy when they gave suitcases of cash to Hamas through Qatar. And they strategically take territory to prevent a contiguous state. Hamas isn’t great but they are a consequence of Israel’s action. They have all the power here. Look at the graphs of deaths between the two sides.
Israel has never been open to peace. They always kind of make it look like it, but the deals they set always show otherwise. Go by actions, not words. They never acknowledge things like right to return for Palestinians, or they require their military to stay in the area, or they want mineral or oil rights, or air space control, or they don’t acknowledge and deal with the settlements in the West Bank, or something else is in the deal that makes it impossible to take by the Palestinians. Basically they always make sure it’s a deal that Palestine can’t take without pissing off their whole populace. Even allied negotiators have admitted they wouldn’t take the deals Israel has offered before. When Palestinians are at a new point of debasement and desperation, and ready for the old deal, Israel always moves the goalposts again. These “negotiations” offer the opportunity for international legitimacy and cover, but that’s about it. They’ll do things like be negotiating with the PLO and then stop because Hamas randomly did an attack. It’s ridiculous.
Israel doesn’t even like their horrible, one-sided deals, as revealed by Rabin’s assassination for even trying. Bibi’s recent comments about a no two solution is just telling the truth after years of gaslighting the world. The mask is off because they’re doing a genocide so there’s no real reason to hide it anymore. But, as emotional as I sound, I am open to changing my mind, so let me know when there’s been a legitimate peace attempt by Israel and I’ll at least acknowledge that much.
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