āWe cant apply reality in one way and ignore it in anotherā
Why not? You are. You can accept the city being cursed but the idea of bringing in magic to cure it is impossible?
And why canāt they move the asylum away from the portal to hell again?
Fill that portal with concrete.
āNo one got arrested for the Panama papersā
That wasnāt the illuminati. The real illuminati got killed, night Templar where burned, Al Capone arrested. People can topple corruption. We do it a lot actually. Epstein was arrested and is now dead.
As for the police giving up why not hire some magic police or mutant police. The money spent on Batman could pay for it.
Tom from tom in Jerry was a terrible cat, thatās kind of the whole joke is heās bad at hunting mice. Again Iām not saying what is best for an entertaining comic. Iām saying in Batmanās world Batman should spend his money fixing things instead of being Batman, which clearly isnāt working. Yes tom should give up on chasing Jerry as well.
Why not? You are. You can accept the city being cursed but the idea of bringing in magic to cure it is impossible?
The option you suggested was Bruce using riches to get otherworldly beings to fight otherworldly beings. Offering Thor 20 bucks (or 20 million even) to fight Satan is laughable because tf is Thor gonna do with 20 bucks?
And why canāt they move the asylum away from the portal to hell again? Fill that portal with concrete.
Because inevitably theyāll land on a Indian burial ground or chemical dump or NIMBYās will oppose it, depending on how real we get.
Epstein was arrested and is now dead
And how many people in the files are? One of the more notable ones is the president now.
As for the police giving up why not hire some magic police or mutant police
Why be a magic cop for x dollars a year when they can be a magic criminal for 10x that? Also the legal wrangling for the property damage and civilian casualties from thrown cars and the like would be insane. Those cops would spend more time in courtrooms then on the street. May as well just pay every citizen to leave town, itād probably be cheaper.
Iām saying in Batmanās world Batman should spend his money fixing things instead of being Batman, which clearly isnāt working.
Really feels like youāre being intentionally obtuse here.
By your metric every superhero and probably every comic book government agency should give up. Lex Luthor keeps doing Lex Luthor shit so Superman should just focus on carrying oil tankers past the Straight of Hormuz to keep gas prices low. Hulks villains keep coming back he should just make coal into diamonds for industry. All these super geniuses should cure cancer and give us unlimited clean energy instead of fighting Thanos. The list goes on.
We canāt call out Batman in comics without calling out every comic character who has some ability that would benefit the world that they instead use to punch baddies in the face. Batman just has one we can contextualize in our world more readily so smug dorks get all āhurr pay your taxesā
And to be clear you can still LIKE Batman. Itās fine to enjoy entertainment. I like the Star Wars movies. The Jedi kinda suck. The Jedi arenāt good people. I can still enjoy the movie. I like iron man movies. Iron man is on an ego trip and has no business doing all that iron man stuff. Itās still a fun movie. Itās entertainment. Like you said a Batman movie where Batman used his money for social reform would be a crappy comic. You can enjoy the comic, but Batman isnāt a great dude. He should use his money not his ego. He should get some therapy.
Really, the part of Batman that should make you raise a brow should be that heās a billionaire whoās not a piece of shit, which as far as I know is only mirrored IRL by MacKenzie Scott.
Iām at a drive thru so I havenāt read the whole wiki.
BUT it starts out saying itās actually his parents foundations not his. Maybe that gets cleared up later on but it seems thatās his parents legacy.
Edit: no it doesnāt clear up. Itās a foundation his parents started and it says nothing about Bruce participating in the article.
Didnāt his parents also build the public transportation system?
And thatās exactly what Iām saying. His parents were doing it the correct way. Really pushing for change. They didnāt go out and do Batman stuff lol. They did exactly what Iām saying Bruce should be doing.
His parents wouldnāt want him avenging thier death I grantee you.
Wasnāt able to pull up if the Thomas and Martha Wayne foundations were explicitly founded by Bruce or his parents (As it doesnāt need to be founded by them to have their names, could be founded in their honor), but considering the Wayne Foundation that he founded is their holding company, one can make a reasonable guess. The point Iām making though is fairly simple: Heās already using his money to help the city. Most of the time when you see Bruce in a tux at some event theyāre talking about how its charitable this way or that way.
They didnāt go out and do Batman stuff lol.
Funnily enough in a alternate universe where Bruce dies instead of them his dad becomes Batman but with gunsā¦ and his mom becomes the Joker. Comic books are silly.
His parents wouldnāt want him avenging their death I grantee you.
Valid point . He may have started the foundation in his parents name. Itās doesnāt say that but itās possible. Iāve never read the comics but in the movies his parents built the train and other public works. I think it was thier foundation not Batmanās but thereās no way I can be sure.
I know the comics are very different. In the movies Bruce does the opposite of being a charitable. He has a persona of being a rich entitled jerk to hide the fact heās Batman. The love interest even points that out with āitās what you do that defines youā when he tries to explain itās an act.
I also hear in the comic he does more detective type stuff which is better than the movies where he just assumes the people heās fighting are bad, which they are in the movies but he has no proof of that, heās just assuming.
It sounds like in the comics heās far more responsible. Even so I think he should stick to the charity work. And Gotham is so bad that only a vigilante can save them and that vigalante just hands them over to an āopen doorā prison. If thatās really the best that can be done in that cursed cityā¦ level the city and leave. Fist fighting will never work because thereās a revolving door of evil.
But then again one of my most controversial life views is often āblow the whole thing upā I say that for a lot lol. Like Israel/palenstien. Itās been constant war for thousands of years years. Christian crusades, Muslim crusades, Jewish war crimes. Fuck it. Blow the whole area up so no one can have it anymore. Evacuate it first obviously, then blow it up. Save a lot of lives that way.
But Iām not a Batman, for good reason. I shouldnāt be in charge of those decisions and neither should Bruce.
Being intentionally obtuse? Weāre talking about a comic book. Iām not getting upset, if you arenāt having fun we can quit talking.
āTf thor going to do with 20 bucksā obviously it would be more than 20 bucks. What would Batman do with money? What are these super human criminals doing with the money? Clearly the super human still need money in this universe. If they are willing to fight Batman to do crimes they clearly still need money.
They canāt move the asylum? They canāt find a location thatās better than over the literal put to hell? Thatās why Bruce Wayne needs to use his money to advertise to people āhey we keep having these escapes because of the pit of hell we built over. We need to move this thingā Iām sure people could be convinced. If there is really no chunk of land that isnāt horribly cursed than Batman is once again wasting his time and money being Batman. He should use his money to help people move the hell away from that permanent cursed ground instead of trying and failing to change things. If it can be changed he could use his money to change it. If it CANT be changed he should use his money to move people out not try to save this impossibly sinking ship.
āWhy be a magic cop when you can be a magic criminal and make moreā so you DO agree the superhuman magic people care about money? Because before it was āwhat is Thor going to do with 20 bucksā now itās āwhy would he work for less money ā Anyway remove the word magic and you have the same question still. Why is anyone a cop instead
Of everyone being a criminal in real life? Why donāt you rob someone right now? Some people donāt want to be criminals.
āHow Many people are still in the filesā thatās not my point. My point is Epstein has stopped because of the justice system. Not everyone has been prosecuted YET because of corruption sure, but we shut down the organization and no one has given up on the files itās just slow work. But you know what is also slow work? Whatever the hell batman thinks heās doing because it
Clearly isnāt working. Joker keeps coming back! Epstein isnāt coming back.
āBy that logic every superheroā¦ā vigalante justice
Doesnāt work so I guess but the main problem is the peopleās super power that is just āIām richā like Batman or iron man. I guess I could get onto storm from x-men too because she should really be fighting extreme weather disasters instead of bank robbers.
Batmaning is a waste of money. I know you keep throwing around phrases to imply Iām stupid, whatever. My point is valid and a lot of very smart people have made the same point. You can disagree if you want but itās not some smooth brained nonsense. Thereās a reason we say it. We can back it up with logic.
Being intentionally obtuse? Weāre talking about a comic book.
Exactly my point. When you say āBatman isnāt effectiveā and I point out that comic books get really boring with no baddies to drive the plot and you just repeat yourself itās being intentional obtuse. Still not sure what part of my point youāre missing here.
Itās a comic book universe.
No one shoots the Joker in the head and the state doesnāt put him to death because then thereās no more story, and it is 100% what would happen IRL by about the 3rd time he murdered a dozen people in the real world, even in the most liberal anti-death penalty state (In b4 āWell heād be ruled insaneā, hence why I noted him being shot in the head.), same with the majority of Batmanās villains, which would likely make Gotham fairly safe. The extreme edge case of the comic book supervillain is honestly the only time Iām pro death penalty and only because of how silly the comic book logic is.
Conversely no one shoots Batman in the one uncovered and thus impossible to armor part of his suit, the mouth, and for sure take him down instantly, for the same reason. Itās comic books. Thereās plenty of suspension of disbelief to go around.
obviously it would be more than 20 bucks. (wrt Thor vs. Satan)
Iām not talking about guy with big muscles that can throw a car in that context. Thereās levels of stuff, and if you wanna fight something as strong as Satan (Not explicitly Satan in Batman but up there on the power scale) you need someone as strong as Satan, and those are in short supply and generally pretty self sufficient or at least not as interested in worldly riches as big muscle man who can throw a car is.
They canāt move the asylum? They canāt find a location thatās better than over the literal put to hell?
Asked and answered. Even beyond that, as noted, every prison in comic book universes are porous. Folks have escaped from alternate dimension prisons, prison planets on the edge of space, being shrunk to the size of ants, etc. Itās comic books, itās a standard trope.
remove the word magic and you have the same logic. Why is anyone a cop instead Of everyone being a criminal in real life?
Not to get too ACAB buuuuuutā¦ One of the most famous non-corrupt cops IRL was Serpico and we know what happened to him. Whatās stopping our hypothetical Gotham magic cops from being corrupt cops? Especially in a city where they can choose between a pile of money or being given overwhelming psychological trauma/eaten by plants/diced up by zombie ninjas or whatever? Even the regular cops in Gotham are fairly useless against the dudes in spandex without Batman around.
My point is Epstein has stopped because of the justice system. Not everyone has been prosecuted YET because of corruption sure, but we shut down the organization and no one has given up on the files
Who was prosecuted from the files aside from the two people? Closest we got was Prince Andrew, who still hasnāt been charged with anything to my knowledge. And again, nobody for the Panama Papers. Makes you wish for a vigilante doesnāt it?
But you know what is also slow work? Whatever the hell batman thinks heās doing because it Clearly isnāt working.
Yeah and why doesnāt Charlie Brown give up on kicking that football and just put down a tee? Or Wile E. Coyote stop chasing that road runner and just get road runner meat on the web? Why canāt comics just have an actual defined ending and then stop after that right? Cāmon dude. Are we gonna keep looping back to this forever?
vigalante justice Doesnāt work so I guess
Which current world leader would you hand the reigns to to stop Thanos or another monster that can eat planets or whatever? And would you trust them to give up those reigns after? Can you imagine Trump having control over a big robot suit or ray gun or whatever that could stop something that could eat planets? Heād go full supervillain himself and the Rās would cheer him on while he did it.
āPeople as powerful as Satan are I. Short supply and arenāt interested ā
But Satan is interested? Satan is the only powerful entity that cares what happens around the world? If he cars there is someone on the other side. Wayne has the resources to get in touch with them.
āAsked and answeredā so youāre sitting with there is not a single better place to put the asylum or it would least be equally useless at another location? Then why bother with criminals at all? Just give up. The whole city is doomed by youāre stand point. Nuke it and move on.
ā not to get to acabā
Letās get acab. All cops are bastards. After George Floyd we pushed for change and many cities did begin to make some small changes. Itās slow but itās working. Know what isnāt working at all for Gotham? Batman. Heās clearly not changing anything at all. What improves things is societal changes not a guy with a cape. He could use his money to push for those changes instead of building a dangerous car.
āWho was prosecuted other than two peopleā thatās correct, the ring leaders and a damn prince
Of England. The two people running the operation are removed from power so was a very very powerful prince. Now we are slowly going after the goons below them. Thatās how that works. You are acting like āwe didnāt do anything except for the things we did!ā Itās silly.
āWhat stops the magic cops from being corrupted ā what stops Batman from being corrupt? People donāt default to evil, most people want to be good guys.
As for thanos Iām pretty sure thanos was taken down by the avengers. A government organization. Wasnāt war machine involved too? The governments iron man who comes of as more trustworthy than stark. I mean it was a major point in the story that the avengers broke up because they didnāt want to work for the government then they had to come back and work together anyway to defeat thanos. A government agency not just Tony Stark doing an iron man. I
What government official would I trust? Who do you trust for anything? Who do you trust with nuclear submarines? Some random rich dude or the government? I donāt like trump having the nuclear missle codes but I sure as hell donāt want Elon musk to have control. At least theoretically trump works for the people, the rich random dude has no obligation besides themselves.
āIf trump had a laserā he does, he has all that military tech stuff. Right now.
You keep circling back to āitās a comicā yes. Iām not trying to write a more engaging story just pointing out the obvious that Bruce Wayne is doing the wrong thing. If youāre argument is āitās a comic donāt worry about itā thatās fine. But youāre argument is āBatman is doing the right thingā he is not.
āWhen you say Batman isnāt effective ā
Okay letās try it this way. HOW is Batman effective? The portal to hell is still open, people keep escaping prisons, the police are still corrupt, organized crime is still prevalent, the city is still in chaos. What exactly has Batman accomplished other than having fun in his fancy suit and car beating up random thugs who are weaker than him. Itās ego not heroic. He needs to be using his money for good not to buy cool toys to beat people up. Itās not working. Vigilante justice NEVER works. It only encourages more violence.
"(Not explicitly Satan in Batman but up there on the power scale) "
youāre sitting with there is not a single better place to put the asylum or it would least be equally useless at another location?
āBecause inevitably theyāll land on a Indian burial ground or chemical dump or NIMBYās will oppose it, depending on how real we get.ā
Letās get acab. All cops are bastards. After George Floyd we pushed for change and many cities did begin to make some small changes. Itās slow but itās working. Know what isnāt working at all for Gotham? Batman. Heās clearly not changing anything at all.
"When you say āBatman isnāt effectiveā and I point out that comic books get really boring with no baddies to drive the plot and you just repeat yourself itās being intentional obtuse. Still not sure what part of my point youāre missing here.
Itās a comic book universe.
No one shoots the Joker in the head and the state doesnāt put him to death because then thereās no more story, and it is 100% what would happen IRL by about the 3rd time he murdered a dozen people in the real world, even in the most liberal anti-death penalty state (In b4 āWell heād be ruled insaneā, hence why I noted him being shot in the head.), same with the majority of Batmanās villains, which would likely make Gotham fairly safe. The extreme edge case of the comic book supervillain is honestly the only time Iām pro death penalty and only because of how silly the comic book logic is."
āWho was prosecuted other than two peopleā thatās correct, the ring leaders and a damn prince Of England. The two people running the operation are removed from power so was a very very powerful prince. Now we are slowly going after the goons below them. Thatās how that works. You are acting like āwe didnāt do anything except for the things we did!ā Itās silly.
"Closest we got was Prince Andrew, who still hasnāt been charged with anything to my knowledge. And again, nobody for the Panama Papers. "
As for thanos Iām pretty sure thanos was taken down by the avengers. A government organization.
Avengers is formed but not explicitly controlled by S.H.I.E.L.D. in the movies iirc, and decidedly unrelated in the comics. I could just as easily point out the Justice League as well, who is funded by Bruce Wayne, or a host of other big planet eating dudes who were beaten by a wide variety of superhero teams. Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men, Fantastic Four, list goes on.
āIf trump had a laserā he does, he has all that military tech stuff. Right now.
Yeah a nuke takes effort and many people, a super robot suit or a magic ring doesnāt.
You keep circling back to āitās a comicā yes. Iām not trying to write a more engaging story just pointing out the obvious that Bruce Wayne is doing the wrong thing.
āBy your metric every superhero and probably every comic book government agency should give up. Lex Luthor keeps doing Lex Luthor shit so Superman should just focus on carrying oil tankers past the Straight of Hormuz to keep gas prices low. Hulks villains keep coming back he should just make coal into diamonds for industry. All these super geniuses should cure cancer and give us unlimited clean energy instead of fighting Thanos. The list goes on.ā
Okay letās try it this way. HOW is Batman effective? The portal to hell is still open, people keep escaping prisons, the police are still corrupt, organized crime is still prevalent, the city is still in chaos. What exactly has Batman accomplished other than having fun in his fancy suit and car beating up random thugs who are weaker than him.
āWhen you say āBatman isnāt effectiveā and I point out that comic books get really boring with no baddies to drive the plot and you just repeat yourself itās being intentional obtuse. Still not sure what part of my point youāre missing here. Itās a comic book universe.ā
To expound: These things donāt get solved because comic book writers donāt want to solve problems permanently because if they donāt they can write more stories about them and make more money. How can one criticize Batman without pointing at that? Any attempt to inject real world logic into the discussion also has to contend with the writers existing.
Vigilante justice NEVER works. It only encourages more violence.
I already pointed out the Luigi thing to someone else.
He wasnāt a billionaire and his actions didnāt cause any change. You can like Luigi for doing what he did but he didnāt accomplish anything.
But in his case he didnāt have any other way to effect change either. Brice Wayne is a billionaire. Luigi is the guy who shot bruces parents.
You are repeating yourself but not answering my questions. Letās try another way.
The writers of the comic book are god to the people in the universe right? Those god writers keep a constant flow of horrible things to hurt Gotham. Then at best Batman is doing nothing. He beats a bad guy, the writers bring him back. In Batmanās universe his vigalante justice at BEST is meaningless because the writers will just undo it.
Fine. That doesnāt make his actions Nobel or beneficial. Itās an endless loop of suffering that exists entirely because of his charecter.
The writers are writing a story for Bruce Wayneās life and all of Gotham suffers for it. If he died Gotham would be better off because the writers wouldnāt keep throwing bad guys at him.
So even in comic books are written to be entertaining universeā¦ Batman is the reasons the writers made the villains. No Batman no villains.
You can like Luigi for doing what he did but he didnāt accomplish anything.
Put a fair amount of the fear of god into execs for several months which from what Iāve read in places led to more approvals for care, and tbh if it had gotten some copycats (e.g. the story āRadicalizedā) I think weād see universal health care pretty fast.
You are repeating yourself but not answering my questions.
I am answering the same questions with the same complete answers. If you wanna discuss, discuss. If you wanna pull a string on a speak and spell, well I can do that too.
So even in comic books are written to be entertaining universeā¦ Batman is the reasons the writers made the villains. No Batman no villains.
No Superman, no villains. No Spiderman, no villains. No X-men, no villains. Not sure youāre really thinking this one through.
Oh and I donāt know if you saw my edit but I rebutted the āthatās how itās writtenā with āwell they are writing Gillianās for Batman to fight. In that universe if there was no Batman there would be no villains. They are written for Batman to fight. Batman is the problem.
So youāre argument is āif Luigi had sparked something it wouldāve been greatā thatās fine. But he didnāt spark anything.
A couple rich guys maybe hired a few more guards. Thatās all.
Much like Batman. Vigilante justice doesnāt work. Iāve heard of exactly one example of vigalante justice that was cool. A whole town banded together to kill a really crappy dude who lived there and kept hurting people. Bit notice that wasnāt some random dude doing it. The whole town agreed that did had to go. So they killed him and he was no longer a problem.
Thatās the only time Iāve seen it work and it wasnāt a Batman it was a whole town.
āWe cant apply reality in one way and ignore it in anotherā
Why not? You are. You can accept the city being cursed but the idea of bringing in magic to cure it is impossible?
And why canāt they move the asylum away from the portal to hell again? Fill that portal with concrete.
āNo one got arrested for the Panama papersā
That wasnāt the illuminati. The real illuminati got killed, night Templar where burned, Al Capone arrested. People can topple corruption. We do it a lot actually. Epstein was arrested and is now dead.
As for the police giving up why not hire some magic police or mutant police. The money spent on Batman could pay for it.
Tom from tom in Jerry was a terrible cat, thatās kind of the whole joke is heās bad at hunting mice. Again Iām not saying what is best for an entertaining comic. Iām saying in Batmanās world Batman should spend his money fixing things instead of being Batman, which clearly isnāt working. Yes tom should give up on chasing Jerry as well.
The option you suggested was Bruce using riches to get otherworldly beings to fight otherworldly beings. Offering Thor 20 bucks (or 20 million even) to fight Satan is laughable because tf is Thor gonna do with 20 bucks?
Because inevitably theyāll land on a Indian burial ground or chemical dump or NIMBYās will oppose it, depending on how real we get.
And how many people in the files are? One of the more notable ones is the president now.
Why be a magic cop for x dollars a year when they can be a magic criminal for 10x that? Also the legal wrangling for the property damage and civilian casualties from thrown cars and the like would be insane. Those cops would spend more time in courtrooms then on the street. May as well just pay every citizen to leave town, itād probably be cheaper.
Really feels like youāre being intentionally obtuse here.
By your metric every superhero and probably every comic book government agency should give up. Lex Luthor keeps doing Lex Luthor shit so Superman should just focus on carrying oil tankers past the Straight of Hormuz to keep gas prices low. Hulks villains keep coming back he should just make coal into diamonds for industry. All these super geniuses should cure cancer and give us unlimited clean energy instead of fighting Thanos. The list goes on.
We canāt call out Batman in comics without calling out every comic character who has some ability that would benefit the world that they instead use to punch baddies in the face. Batman just has one we can contextualize in our world more readily so smug dorks get all āhurr pay your taxesā
And to be clear you can still LIKE Batman. Itās fine to enjoy entertainment. I like the Star Wars movies. The Jedi kinda suck. The Jedi arenāt good people. I can still enjoy the movie. I like iron man movies. Iron man is on an ego trip and has no business doing all that iron man stuff. Itās still a fun movie. Itās entertainment. Like you said a Batman movie where Batman used his money for social reform would be a crappy comic. You can enjoy the comic, but Batman isnāt a great dude. He should use his money not his ego. He should get some therapy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Enterprises#Wayne_Foundation
Really, the part of Batman that should make you raise a brow should be that heās a billionaire whoās not a piece of shit, which as far as I know is only mirrored IRL by MacKenzie Scott.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacKenzie_Scott#Philanthropy
Iām at a drive thru so I havenāt read the whole wiki.
BUT it starts out saying itās actually his parents foundations not his. Maybe that gets cleared up later on but it seems thatās his parents legacy.
Edit: no it doesnāt clear up. Itās a foundation his parents started and it says nothing about Bruce participating in the article.
Didnāt his parents also build the public transportation system?
And thatās exactly what Iām saying. His parents were doing it the correct way. Really pushing for change. They didnāt go out and do Batman stuff lol. They did exactly what Iām saying Bruce should be doing.
His parents wouldnāt want him avenging thier death I grantee you.
Hereās a bit more thorough history of it:
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Wayne_Foundation
Wasnāt able to pull up if the Thomas and Martha Wayne foundations were explicitly founded by Bruce or his parents (As it doesnāt need to be founded by them to have their names, could be founded in their honor), but considering the Wayne Foundation that he founded is their holding company, one can make a reasonable guess. The point Iām making though is fairly simple: Heās already using his money to help the city. Most of the time when you see Bruce in a tux at some event theyāre talking about how its charitable this way or that way.
Funnily enough in a alternate universe where Bruce dies instead of them his dad becomes Batman but with gunsā¦ and his mom becomes the Joker. Comic books are silly.
Itās why he has the no kill code.
Valid point . He may have started the foundation in his parents name. Itās doesnāt say that but itās possible. Iāve never read the comics but in the movies his parents built the train and other public works. I think it was thier foundation not Batmanās but thereās no way I can be sure.
I know the comics are very different. In the movies Bruce does the opposite of being a charitable. He has a persona of being a rich entitled jerk to hide the fact heās Batman. The love interest even points that out with āitās what you do that defines youā when he tries to explain itās an act.
I also hear in the comic he does more detective type stuff which is better than the movies where he just assumes the people heās fighting are bad, which they are in the movies but he has no proof of that, heās just assuming.
It sounds like in the comics heās far more responsible. Even so I think he should stick to the charity work. And Gotham is so bad that only a vigilante can save them and that vigalante just hands them over to an āopen doorā prison. If thatās really the best that can be done in that cursed cityā¦ level the city and leave. Fist fighting will never work because thereās a revolving door of evil.
But then again one of my most controversial life views is often āblow the whole thing upā I say that for a lot lol. Like Israel/palenstien. Itās been constant war for thousands of years years. Christian crusades, Muslim crusades, Jewish war crimes. Fuck it. Blow the whole area up so no one can have it anymore. Evacuate it first obviously, then blow it up. Save a lot of lives that way.
But Iām not a Batman, for good reason. I shouldnāt be in charge of those decisions and neither should Bruce.
Being intentionally obtuse? Weāre talking about a comic book. Iām not getting upset, if you arenāt having fun we can quit talking.
āTf thor going to do with 20 bucksā obviously it would be more than 20 bucks. What would Batman do with money? What are these super human criminals doing with the money? Clearly the super human still need money in this universe. If they are willing to fight Batman to do crimes they clearly still need money.
They canāt move the asylum? They canāt find a location thatās better than over the literal put to hell? Thatās why Bruce Wayne needs to use his money to advertise to people āhey we keep having these escapes because of the pit of hell we built over. We need to move this thingā Iām sure people could be convinced. If there is really no chunk of land that isnāt horribly cursed than Batman is once again wasting his time and money being Batman. He should use his money to help people move the hell away from that permanent cursed ground instead of trying and failing to change things. If it can be changed he could use his money to change it. If it CANT be changed he should use his money to move people out not try to save this impossibly sinking ship.
āWhy be a magic cop when you can be a magic criminal and make moreā so you DO agree the superhuman magic people care about money? Because before it was āwhat is Thor going to do with 20 bucksā now itās āwhy would he work for less money ā Anyway remove the word magic and you have the same question still. Why is anyone a cop instead Of everyone being a criminal in real life? Why donāt you rob someone right now? Some people donāt want to be criminals.
āHow Many people are still in the filesā thatās not my point. My point is Epstein has stopped because of the justice system. Not everyone has been prosecuted YET because of corruption sure, but we shut down the organization and no one has given up on the files itās just slow work. But you know what is also slow work? Whatever the hell batman thinks heās doing because it Clearly isnāt working. Joker keeps coming back! Epstein isnāt coming back.
āBy that logic every superheroā¦ā vigalante justice Doesnāt work so I guess but the main problem is the peopleās super power that is just āIām richā like Batman or iron man. I guess I could get onto storm from x-men too because she should really be fighting extreme weather disasters instead of bank robbers.
Batmaning is a waste of money. I know you keep throwing around phrases to imply Iām stupid, whatever. My point is valid and a lot of very smart people have made the same point. You can disagree if you want but itās not some smooth brained nonsense. Thereās a reason we say it. We can back it up with logic.
Exactly my point. When you say āBatman isnāt effectiveā and I point out that comic books get really boring with no baddies to drive the plot and you just repeat yourself itās being intentional obtuse. Still not sure what part of my point youāre missing here.
Itās a comic book universe.
No one shoots the Joker in the head and the state doesnāt put him to death because then thereās no more story, and it is 100% what would happen IRL by about the 3rd time he murdered a dozen people in the real world, even in the most liberal anti-death penalty state (In b4 āWell heād be ruled insaneā, hence why I noted him being shot in the head.), same with the majority of Batmanās villains, which would likely make Gotham fairly safe. The extreme edge case of the comic book supervillain is honestly the only time Iām pro death penalty and only because of how silly the comic book logic is.
Conversely no one shoots Batman in the one uncovered and thus impossible to armor part of his suit, the mouth, and for sure take him down instantly, for the same reason. Itās comic books. Thereās plenty of suspension of disbelief to go around.
Iām not talking about guy with big muscles that can throw a car in that context. Thereās levels of stuff, and if you wanna fight something as strong as Satan (Not explicitly Satan in Batman but up there on the power scale) you need someone as strong as Satan, and those are in short supply and generally pretty self sufficient or at least not as interested in worldly riches as big muscle man who can throw a car is.
Asked and answered. Even beyond that, as noted, every prison in comic book universes are porous. Folks have escaped from alternate dimension prisons, prison planets on the edge of space, being shrunk to the size of ants, etc. Itās comic books, itās a standard trope.
Not to get too ACAB buuuuuutā¦ One of the most famous non-corrupt cops IRL was Serpico and we know what happened to him. Whatās stopping our hypothetical Gotham magic cops from being corrupt cops? Especially in a city where they can choose between a pile of money or being given overwhelming psychological trauma/eaten by plants/diced up by zombie ninjas or whatever? Even the regular cops in Gotham are fairly useless against the dudes in spandex without Batman around.
Who was prosecuted from the files aside from the two people? Closest we got was Prince Andrew, who still hasnāt been charged with anything to my knowledge. And again, nobody for the Panama Papers. Makes you wish for a vigilante doesnāt it?
Yeah and why doesnāt Charlie Brown give up on kicking that football and just put down a tee? Or Wile E. Coyote stop chasing that road runner and just get road runner meat on the web? Why canāt comics just have an actual defined ending and then stop after that right? Cāmon dude. Are we gonna keep looping back to this forever?
Which current world leader would you hand the reigns to to stop Thanos or another monster that can eat planets or whatever? And would you trust them to give up those reigns after? Can you imagine Trump having control over a big robot suit or ray gun or whatever that could stop something that could eat planets? Heād go full supervillain himself and the Rās would cheer him on while he did it.
āPeople as powerful as Satan are I. Short supply and arenāt interested ā
But Satan is interested? Satan is the only powerful entity that cares what happens around the world? If he cars there is someone on the other side. Wayne has the resources to get in touch with them.
āAsked and answeredā so youāre sitting with there is not a single better place to put the asylum or it would least be equally useless at another location? Then why bother with criminals at all? Just give up. The whole city is doomed by youāre stand point. Nuke it and move on.
ā not to get to acabā
Letās get acab. All cops are bastards. After George Floyd we pushed for change and many cities did begin to make some small changes. Itās slow but itās working. Know what isnāt working at all for Gotham? Batman. Heās clearly not changing anything at all. What improves things is societal changes not a guy with a cape. He could use his money to push for those changes instead of building a dangerous car.
āWho was prosecuted other than two peopleā thatās correct, the ring leaders and a damn prince Of England. The two people running the operation are removed from power so was a very very powerful prince. Now we are slowly going after the goons below them. Thatās how that works. You are acting like āwe didnāt do anything except for the things we did!ā Itās silly.
āWhat stops the magic cops from being corrupted ā what stops Batman from being corrupt? People donāt default to evil, most people want to be good guys.
As for thanos Iām pretty sure thanos was taken down by the avengers. A government organization. Wasnāt war machine involved too? The governments iron man who comes of as more trustworthy than stark. I mean it was a major point in the story that the avengers broke up because they didnāt want to work for the government then they had to come back and work together anyway to defeat thanos. A government agency not just Tony Stark doing an iron man. I
What government official would I trust? Who do you trust for anything? Who do you trust with nuclear submarines? Some random rich dude or the government? I donāt like trump having the nuclear missle codes but I sure as hell donāt want Elon musk to have control. At least theoretically trump works for the people, the rich random dude has no obligation besides themselves.
āIf trump had a laserā he does, he has all that military tech stuff. Right now.
You keep circling back to āitās a comicā yes. Iām not trying to write a more engaging story just pointing out the obvious that Bruce Wayne is doing the wrong thing. If youāre argument is āitās a comic donāt worry about itā thatās fine. But youāre argument is āBatman is doing the right thingā he is not.
āWhen you say Batman isnāt effective ā
Okay letās try it this way. HOW is Batman effective? The portal to hell is still open, people keep escaping prisons, the police are still corrupt, organized crime is still prevalent, the city is still in chaos. What exactly has Batman accomplished other than having fun in his fancy suit and car beating up random thugs who are weaker than him. Itās ego not heroic. He needs to be using his money for good not to buy cool toys to beat people up. Itās not working. Vigilante justice NEVER works. It only encourages more violence.
"(Not explicitly Satan in Batman but up there on the power scale) "
āBecause inevitably theyāll land on a Indian burial ground or chemical dump or NIMBYās will oppose it, depending on how real we get.ā
"When you say āBatman isnāt effectiveā and I point out that comic books get really boring with no baddies to drive the plot and you just repeat yourself itās being intentional obtuse. Still not sure what part of my point youāre missing here.
Itās a comic book universe.
No one shoots the Joker in the head and the state doesnāt put him to death because then thereās no more story, and it is 100% what would happen IRL by about the 3rd time he murdered a dozen people in the real world, even in the most liberal anti-death penalty state (In b4 āWell heād be ruled insaneā, hence why I noted him being shot in the head.), same with the majority of Batmanās villains, which would likely make Gotham fairly safe. The extreme edge case of the comic book supervillain is honestly the only time Iām pro death penalty and only because of how silly the comic book logic is."
"Closest we got was Prince Andrew, who still hasnāt been charged with anything to my knowledge. And again, nobody for the Panama Papers. "
Avengers is formed but not explicitly controlled by S.H.I.E.L.D. in the movies iirc, and decidedly unrelated in the comics. I could just as easily point out the Justice League as well, who is funded by Bruce Wayne, or a host of other big planet eating dudes who were beaten by a wide variety of superhero teams. Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men, Fantastic Four, list goes on.
Yeah a nuke takes effort and many people, a super robot suit or a magic ring doesnāt.
āBy your metric every superhero and probably every comic book government agency should give up. Lex Luthor keeps doing Lex Luthor shit so Superman should just focus on carrying oil tankers past the Straight of Hormuz to keep gas prices low. Hulks villains keep coming back he should just make coal into diamonds for industry. All these super geniuses should cure cancer and give us unlimited clean energy instead of fighting Thanos. The list goes on.ā
āWhen you say āBatman isnāt effectiveā and I point out that comic books get really boring with no baddies to drive the plot and you just repeat yourself itās being intentional obtuse. Still not sure what part of my point youāre missing here. Itās a comic book universe.ā
To expound: These things donāt get solved because comic book writers donāt want to solve problems permanently because if they donāt they can write more stories about them and make more money. How can one criticize Batman without pointing at that? Any attempt to inject real world logic into the discussion also has to contend with the writers existing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Mangione
I already pointed out the Luigi thing to someone else.
He wasnāt a billionaire and his actions didnāt cause any change. You can like Luigi for doing what he did but he didnāt accomplish anything.
But in his case he didnāt have any other way to effect change either. Brice Wayne is a billionaire. Luigi is the guy who shot bruces parents.
You are repeating yourself but not answering my questions. Letās try another way.
The writers of the comic book are god to the people in the universe right? Those god writers keep a constant flow of horrible things to hurt Gotham. Then at best Batman is doing nothing. He beats a bad guy, the writers bring him back. In Batmanās universe his vigalante justice at BEST is meaningless because the writers will just undo it.
Fine. That doesnāt make his actions Nobel or beneficial. Itās an endless loop of suffering that exists entirely because of his charecter.
The writers are writing a story for Bruce Wayneās life and all of Gotham suffers for it. If he died Gotham would be better off because the writers wouldnāt keep throwing bad guys at him.
So even in comic books are written to be entertaining universeā¦ Batman is the reasons the writers made the villains. No Batman no villains.
Put a fair amount of the fear of god into execs for several months which from what Iāve read in places led to more approvals for care, and tbh if it had gotten some copycats (e.g. the story āRadicalizedā) I think weād see universal health care pretty fast.
I am answering the same questions with the same complete answers. If you wanna discuss, discuss. If you wanna pull a string on a speak and spell, well I can do that too.
No Superman, no villains. No Spiderman, no villains. No X-men, no villains. Not sure youāre really thinking this one through.
Oh and I donāt know if you saw my edit but I rebutted the āthatās how itās writtenā with āwell they are writing Gillianās for Batman to fight. In that universe if there was no Batman there would be no villains. They are written for Batman to fight. Batman is the problem.
So youāre argument is āif Luigi had sparked something it wouldāve been greatā thatās fine. But he didnāt spark anything.
A couple rich guys maybe hired a few more guards. Thatās all.
Much like Batman. Vigilante justice doesnāt work. Iāve heard of exactly one example of vigalante justice that was cool. A whole town banded together to kill a really crappy dude who lived there and kept hurting people. Bit notice that wasnāt some random dude doing it. The whole town agreed that did had to go. So they killed him and he was no longer a problem.
Thatās the only time Iāve seen it work and it wasnāt a Batman it was a whole town.