Getting ahead of this before anyone mentions it: technically there’s nothing definitionally inconsistent with a Roman Catholic believing Leo is wrong in this case. Papal infallibility, in the fiction of Roman Catholicism, has critieria and limits which his words on the Iran War expressly do not satisfy.
Like obviously it’s stupid as fuck and indicates a disregard for their professed religion, but this 100% squares with said religion at a rigid, doctrinal level.
That argument somehow hints that there might be a lot of Catholics out there who are so educated in their religion that they understand when the doctrine allows them to believe the Pope is wrong, but who are also so uneducated in their religion that they don’t understand that the Catholic catechism specifies a “just war doctrine,” the criteria of which the war in Iran clearly doesn’t meet.
It would be more consistent to think that they are simply ignorant with regard to both doctrines.
If they are ignorant as to when the Pope is supposed to be infallible, a religious person of average intellect would be expected to err on the side of agreeing with the Pope. Which makes the numbers appear even crazier.
But I suspect these people are basically just not thinking at all. They don’t realize that they are making these decisions. They just do whatever the loudest person tells them to do.
I made no attempt at an argument in defense of anyone in that poll; I wrote the comment because I knew if I didn’t, some annoying wannabe pedant was going to come in about “hurr durr papal infallibility” not knowing what they’re talking about.
It would be more consistent to think that they are simply ignorant with regard to both doctrines.
I agree. Everything I said, as noted, was preempting misguided pedantry, not about what any of the people in the poll actually believe.
I made no attempt at an argument in defense of anyone in that poll
I didn’t mean to reference an argument in defense of the poll takers, but the argument that Catholics are allowed by doctrine to disagree with the Pope. I just wanted to say that the doctrine doesn’t matter if people we are measuring by the doctrine are unaware of it or ignorant of its ramifications.
With that understanding, in people in this case could disagree with the pope, knowing that it was permissible, it would hint that they would have this nearly unthinkably disparate understanding of their own religion.
Getting ahead of this before anyone mentions it: technically there’s nothing definitionally inconsistent with a Roman Catholic believing Leo is wrong in this case. Papal infallibility, in the fiction of Roman Catholicism, has critieria and limits which his words on the Iran War expressly do not satisfy.
Like obviously it’s stupid as fuck and indicates a disregard for their professed religion, but this 100% squares with said religion at a rigid, doctrinal level.
That argument somehow hints that there might be a lot of Catholics out there who are so educated in their religion that they understand when the doctrine allows them to believe the Pope is wrong, but who are also so uneducated in their religion that they don’t understand that the Catholic catechism specifies a “just war doctrine,” the criteria of which the war in Iran clearly doesn’t meet.
It would be more consistent to think that they are simply ignorant with regard to both doctrines.
If they are ignorant as to when the Pope is supposed to be infallible, a religious person of average intellect would be expected to err on the side of agreeing with the Pope. Which makes the numbers appear even crazier.
But I suspect these people are basically just not thinking at all. They don’t realize that they are making these decisions. They just do whatever the loudest person tells them to do.
I made no attempt at an argument in defense of anyone in that poll; I wrote the comment because I knew if I didn’t, some annoying wannabe pedant was going to come in about “hurr durr papal infallibility” not knowing what they’re talking about.
I agree. Everything I said, as noted, was preempting misguided pedantry, not about what any of the people in the poll actually believe.
I didn’t mean to reference an argument in defense of the poll takers, but the argument that Catholics are allowed by doctrine to disagree with the Pope. I just wanted to say that the doctrine doesn’t matter if people we are measuring by the doctrine are unaware of it or ignorant of its ramifications.
With that understanding, in people in this case could disagree with the pope, knowing that it was permissible, it would hint that they would have this nearly unthinkably disparate understanding of their own religion.