Meanwhile, the more-leftist-than-thou will yell at people that point out that the gEnOcIdEjOe psyop was rather foolish to fall for. Again, many Democrats can be reached on matters of policy. Maybe not all. And there is no perfect politician, that’s just not a thing in the real world.
Meanwhile, the conservatives are seeking ways to come for you. Imprison you. Remove you from the country. Possibly murder you.
I don’t really see any other way to construe it, you said people calling Biden out for his crimes against humanity were a psyop? And that you should just suck it up and vote for the democrats despite the fact that they’re melting babies on the other side of the planet, because at least they aren’t doing it to us?
A system that is proving incapable of making a choice that doesn’t ultimately do more good than the harm it causes, probably isn’t worth saving to begin with. When offered the choice between facing a live-streamed firing squad, or getting stabbed in the back and left to bleed out in an alley, you’re not really being offered different outcomes, just a different process, and maybe more time to find a way out. That’s the real pragmatic choice. Not playing their sick game in the first place, and building an exit strategy.
Will it? Voting Democratic will stop things from accelerating toward worse, but it rarely seems to do anything to actually make anything better. I’m very open to the idea that when you find yourself in a hole, you should stop digging, but not digging by itself doesn’t get you out of the hole.
Voting democrat in 2008 gave me and many other Americans healthcare that I would have struggled or been impoverished without. That’s better than voting Republican or not voting would have gotten me.
Voting Democrat in 2020 removed Trump from the White House. I cannot imagine the hell we would be in right now if we were entering his 10th year as president instead of the 6th.
I’ll continue to vote Democrat until there’s a better viable option. I’m not going to leave my future up to the rest of America. I would like a say in what happens to me, even if it’s not ever going to be exactly what I want.
Well clearly voting Democrat never improved your reading comprehension. I never said don’t vote for them. I said if that’s all you’re doing and you expect it to get better, you’re not paying attention.
This is the kind of short term thinking that created this mess. Refusal to look at the big picture because it won’t affect you directly is how your grandchildren end up in a mass grave. Wise men plant trees whose fruit they will never eat. Fools fiddle while Rome burns. I’d say you should be ashamed, but I don’t know that your still capable of such a thing. Far too many in such a position aren’t.
My comment was in reference to Kamala being anointed, after Biden effectively canceled the presidential primaries in 2024.
While I do believe electoral politics have failed us in the American 2 party system, I do still maintain we should always vote when/where able. There are some good progressives running this year, I voted for those available to me in this year’s primaries as well although sadly the establishment figures won in my state.
Frankly I don’t care who wins in November so long as they immediately and vigorously pursue prosecutions of the criminal regime currently grifting the country for all it’s worth. I find it very unlikely any Republican will do that, although ‘28 may be a different story.
Kamala’s name was on the ballot in the primary. I voted for her in the primary, that’s how it works. But you’re here in bad faith so I’m not gonna waste time explaining grade school civics to propagandists.
Her name was on the ballot I cast, so I dunno what your deal is. You talk like you listen to Fox news. They kept saying anointed too. Funny coincidence I’m sure. I genuinely hope all you fox- I mean faux leftists live in deep red states, you deserve the representation you work for.
I’m so severely sick of dealing with the class of people who lost the election for Democrats in 2024 by refusing to address the fact what the administration had aided and abbetted the whole cloth slaughter of a people and then claim resistance to that was a psyop or conspiracy.
Literally no leftists were denying or avoiding Biden/Kamala’s support of the genocide.
We were telling you people that Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide, and start new ones while also destroying global peace. And he did.
Its not our fault you and every other drooling dipshit refused to actually bother to look at the situation objectively and from a perspective of “which option of the LITERALLY ONLY 2 VIABLE OPTIONS leads to less deaths”?
Maybe this November you and the rest of the dipshits will rub to braincells together and actually vote for the only option that kills less people, and hosts any political movement against killing people in general.
Literally no leftists were denying or avoiding Biden/Kamala’s support of the genocide.
Democrats sure as fuck were. And plenty of “liberals” here. We’ve got all the receipts.
We were telling you people that Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide, and start new ones while also destroying global peace. And he did.
You needed to run an anti-genocide candidate to stop him. You sabotaged that.
For like, the 400th time…
the dipshits
YOUR THE FUCKING DIPSHIT HERE!!!
You can’t run a pro-genocide in the anti-genocide lane and expect to win. You lose the fucking election.
THE ONLY FUCKING OPTION IS TO MOVE THE CANDIDATE TO BEING ANTI-GENOCIDE!!
Thats it. Period. Fin. Finito. Finale. Pau.
You side offers no credible mechansism for how to move an electorate. The only other option is to move the candidate.
The fucking idiots here are the ones who expected American voters to behave differently than they do. You don’t get a choice in how voters behave. You can only adapt to it. You, YOU IN PARTICULAR, refuse to live in a world where the strategy maps to how real actual fucking voters behave.
Your fucking strategy is FUCKING WORTHLESS and just hands power to fascists. THats it. And Democrats did exactly what you wanted them to. And they handed the fucking power to fascists. So since you wont fucking pull your head out of your ass and live in an evidence based reality, I can only assume, you too also want to hand power to fascists.
Thankfully you peices of shit have completely lost control of the base and the party, and people who think like you are being ignore at scale, since all you are capable of is handing power to fascists.
How is a political establishment that directly aids and participated in genocide redeemable to you? Who from the class of genocidiaires can we vote for with the faith that they won’t continue their genocide? Nearly every mainstream politician in the US is irredeemable and the sooner the system collapses and the imperialist US military loses its ability to carry out atrocities the better.
Or, you know, not voting against the guy who told us he was going to be a dictator who wants to nuke Gaza and turn it into a resort was a stupid choice.
Neither viable option promised good things for Gaza, but one promised bad things. The fact that people can’t understand that is why we’re in this mess.
At least there was a chance that Harris was bullshitting to get funding for a last minute campaign against a guy baked by multiple billionaires. She was the one in the Biden administration pushing for the investigation required to stop arming Israel.
Trump just wants to cause pain because he gets off on it.
That’s fine. But if that how you approach an election you hand governence to the fascists. You can have the attitude that it’s acceptable to take the lessor of two evils: But if you run a campaign or election in that manner, you lose the election.
It’s not an acceptable or viable strategy which Democrats can use to win. They lose when they engage with your sentiment. It’s remarkablely clear that voters don’t respond to voting for the lessor evil. You can be mad about h that or angry with voters, but you can’t keep living in denial of it as a stated fact.
Campaigns have to conform to voters for them to be successful. Politicians need to reach and meet voters where they are at and engage their policies and positions to conform to what voters want, or they lose elections.
We’re not in the mess because of how voters behave. We’ve always known that the approach you outline loses elections. You should really grapple with the sentiment you are expressing here because the cognitive dissonance is within in this case.
In 2024 you had two Democratic candidates for president both refuse to go to where their voters were in terms of policy. And it lost an election. And your frustration is then repreojected onto voters. You’ve got it backwards. All of your frustration should be with the candidates who stepped away from where the votes they need to get elected were. And everyone with eyes saw this happening in 2024. Outside of party loyalists, no one was fooled by either Biden or Kamalas campaign or why it was happening.
The problem is that major Democratic campaigns refuse to acknowledge this and instead insist the voters conform to the corporate and AIPAC donors want. And what that class of donors wants from candidates loses elections.
It’s how you have to approach an election in this country. The time to push is during the primaries, but after that you have to pick the least bad option, or you get stuff like a second ongoing genocide.
Jfc can you please try and live in an evidence based reality.
NO. Fucking stop. Stop losing elections on our behalf by promoting a evidentiarilly demonstrated-to-be a failure strategy.
That’s not how fucking elections work. Democrats lose elections when they do what you are advocating for. Please fucking stop. We can’t afford to continue to lose because you insist on both being wrong, and having your way.
They lose elections because people are too stupid to realize that change starts locally, starts with the primaries. It’s always taken attention and work, but most people just show up on Election Day and bitch about their choices.
What is the alternative during the actual election? You need to get the fucking party that still contains some sane people in it in power, then you work your ass off to get rid of the shitty corporate ones. A general election is not the place for activism, it’s where you do damage control.
They lose elections because people are too stupid…
That’s the whole problem. Democrats see the very understandable cynicism many people have around their vote actually mattering in our current political reality, and they conclude it’s because they’re stupid or misinformed.
Right, so instead of swinging wildly back and forth, hopping that one weird trick will eventually save us, a smart strategy would realize this and be strategic.
I’m not saying this to defend dems, they are a problem as well, just not as much of an existential one. They have shown that voter pressure still leads to change, maybe not always done right, but Biden bowed out eventually due to pressure, the other side NEVER will.
We have the power, the vote can still work, the powers that be know what our idiotic voting patterns are though and they use us. Time for us to use the fucking system against them.
What is the alternative during the actual election?
This is the wrong question to be asking because, as I seem to continuously have to repeat, this isn’t how voters operate and not how elections work. Its not how people operate. And in an election, you don’t get to decide how people work. People work however they work. You have no other choice than to adapt to that if your goal is winning an election.
There is a rot in the brain of liberals, which emerged as an extension of a suite of propaganda around “strategic voting”. If pushed I could dig up the original clip which was making the rounds almost a decade ago. And the problem with this brain worm, is that it fundamentally misunderstands how voting functions, how voters function, how elections work, and more critically, it does a standard kind of slight of hand that we’ve seen so many times, where it displaces responsibility from systems and people in power, onto individuals within that system. And you, in your response, are victim to that slight of hand.
Its what the oil industry did when they put the onus for climate change onto individuals (recycling, reducing use, cutting down on meat). Its what the tobacco industry does. And its what the DNC does. Rather than allow the conversation to be about those actually in power, who can actually decide to do things differently, the conversation is flattened to one where, through some magical unprecedented mechanism, mass individualist collective action is expected to manifest, and not only, but to also land on the same collusion around the value of Democrats value when put into power.
Its pure fantasy. It based on hypothetical proposition of voter behavior, one which has repeatedly been demonstrated to be false. There is simply no mechanism for it.
What is the alternative during the actual election?
Push the candidate to where the voters are. Be critical of candidates, harshly so. Force them to hear the criticism so that they move to where voters are. Do not allow them to persist in echo chambers.
You can not move voters in the course of an election cycle.
You can move a candidate in an afternoon or during the course of one conversation.
I am really deeply convinced most of the people who make comments like that online are right wing trolls, because there’s pretty much no better advertisement for the Republican party at this point than pretending like there’s a sizable group of people who actually liked the Biden administration. Like even if you are a Joe Biden superfan, you’ve gotta understand he got rejected in 2024 and there’s zero point now in trying to rehabilitate his brand. Telling everyone how great Newsome is I would understand (though obviously disagree with), but simping for Biden at this point? Doesn’t make any sense unless you’re trying to piss off progressive voters.
All the trolls in this community who flip out anytime someone makes a reasonable point about how the Dems are fucking up yet again are a way way way bigger problem than whatever you’re trying to say with this personal attack, the fact is we wouldn’t be in this situation if dumbass moderates hadn’t lost two elections to Donald Trump by being completely awful at politics and putting so much more energy into punching left than dealing with rising fascism
The fact is we wouldn’t be in this situation at all if every self-declared leftist/progressive actually fucking voted in primaries and every election. But you don’t, and then you bitch about not being represented. No shit, none of you fuckin vote, you’re not even at the table because you don’t do the bare goddamn minimum civic duty. Our whole culture is fucked.
All I can say is that they aren’t interested in winning elections. Clearly. Their response is pathological, conspiratorial, and antisocial. There is a term which is becoming a bit of a trope, but its been gaining traction over the previous few years, which is simulacrum, a synthetic reality of ones own creation.
Corporate and “centrist” news sources spent decades building up a simulacra for mainstream dems and liberals to inhabit. And when you attack that fantastic world view, one totally unhinged from reality, they take that attack personally, because they’ve lost the attachment between their perceptions of how they think the world should be, and how the world actually is.
If a politician can’t be bothered to stop supporting a genocidal regime (Israel) or defend the human rights of Americans (lgbtq,) why the fuck would we believe they’ll stand up against fascists at other times?
Silence is complicity, and a shocking number of democrats are awfully silent on things that should never be.
Isn’t exactly pragmatic to trust the guy whose going to stand around and watch while you’re being raped.
You’re right, the arm band wearing Nazis are actually the better option in this scenario for dumb fuckin tankie-ass reasons that make sense to dumb fuckin tankies.🙄
But you can’t answer a simple question without going there.
So, let me make the question even simpler:
Why should I trust fascist-Lites to protect me from fascists?
Enough democrats are fascist-lite. Which is why the Biden admin did absolutely fuck-all to stop helping Israel or protect voting rights or trans rights or actually hold Trump and his cronies to account.
Your “pragmatism” is what got us here- going back over 50 years- and implying I’m a tankie for saying it says more about you than me.
That we stop supporting fascists because they’re less overtly fascists than other fascists.
The DNC has gotten away with that for far too long.
If a politician did fuck-all back when it was easy, they’re not gonna do anything when it’s hard. I don’t have any good solutions- I don’t think anyone does.
Right now, we’re on track to a fourth reich and I’ve been warning anyone who’d listen for the last decade. If you think there’s not gonna be pain ahead, I got bad news for you.
Isn’t this the entire conservative project?
Meanwhile, the more-leftist-than-thou will yell at people that point out that the gEnOcIdEjOe psyop was rather foolish to fall for. Again, many Democrats can be reached on matters of policy. Maybe not all. And there is no perfect politician, that’s just not a thing in the real world.
Meanwhile, the conservatives are seeking ways to come for you. Imprison you. Remove you from the country. Possibly murder you.
So the genocide is fine as long as it’s happening on the other side of the world. That’s your position?
If that’s how you want to construe what I said, I’m not really sure how to help you out here.
I don’t really see any other way to construe it, you said people calling Biden out for his crimes against humanity were a psyop? And that you should just suck it up and vote for the democrats despite the fact that they’re melting babies on the other side of the planet, because at least they aren’t doing it to us?
Sigh. I’m done. You just seem to be another account that seems to be intent on giving power to the Republicans.
Have a nice day.
How fucking lazy, lol. I don’t know how many times you need to lose before you learn.
As long as conservatives continue to live, they will continue to oppress everyone around them.
Yeah, but it would sure be nice to have candidates to vote FOR rather than against.
If we all vote in the primaries we could have that, but leftists tend to not vote or throw away their vote on an unviable third party.
Without question.
But…there are a lot of things that would be nice in this world. Often you have to make the pragmatic choice.
A system that is proving incapable of making a choice that doesn’t ultimately do more good than the harm it causes, probably isn’t worth saving to begin with. When offered the choice between facing a live-streamed firing squad, or getting stabbed in the back and left to bleed out in an alley, you’re not really being offered different outcomes, just a different process, and maybe more time to find a way out. That’s the real pragmatic choice. Not playing their sick game in the first place, and building an exit strategy.
I’m not sure what you are suggesting here. Not sure what you are talking about with firing squads and stabbings?
Voting Democratic will absolutely make things better. No one is claiming that it will be perfect.
Will it? Voting Democratic will stop things from accelerating toward worse, but it rarely seems to do anything to actually make anything better. I’m very open to the idea that when you find yourself in a hole, you should stop digging, but not digging by itself doesn’t get you out of the hole.
Voting democrat in 2008 gave me and many other Americans healthcare that I would have struggled or been impoverished without. That’s better than voting Republican or not voting would have gotten me.
Voting Democrat in 2020 removed Trump from the White House. I cannot imagine the hell we would be in right now if we were entering his 10th year as president instead of the 6th.
I’ll continue to vote Democrat until there’s a better viable option. I’m not going to leave my future up to the rest of America. I would like a say in what happens to me, even if it’s not ever going to be exactly what I want.
It also led to hundreds or thousands of innocents being drone struck by Obama.
Well clearly voting Democrat never improved your reading comprehension. I never said don’t vote for them. I said if that’s all you’re doing and you expect it to get better, you’re not paying attention.
I never said you didn’t vote for them. I never mentioned your vote at all. I mentioned mine.
What’s that about reading comprehension?
Except the choice is that someone else is getting shot or stabbed.
Dems would have been better for the US and for the world. Ultimately though, I’m personally not going to be affected much either way.
*yet
They’re coming for you and yours eventually. It’s in their nature. You’re just not the target yet.
Yes, like I said, the lesser evil would have been better for everyone.
But as a white guy with a yacht capable of sailing the oceans, they’re coming for me last.
This is the kind of short term thinking that created this mess. Refusal to look at the big picture because it won’t affect you directly is how your grandchildren end up in a mass grave. Wise men plant trees whose fruit they will never eat. Fools fiddle while Rome burns. I’d say you should be ashamed, but I don’t know that your still capable of such a thing. Far too many in such a position aren’t.
So are you mad that I support the democrats instead of the republicans?
Or are you just mad that I recognized what the world is and made sure that I and my people would be fine?
Even nicer if we have the chance to vote for them in a primary election first.
I voted in the primaries for a progressive, why didn’t you? You want republicans to win?
My comment was in reference to Kamala being anointed, after Biden effectively canceled the presidential primaries in 2024.
While I do believe electoral politics have failed us in the American 2 party system, I do still maintain we should always vote when/where able. There are some good progressives running this year, I voted for those available to me in this year’s primaries as well although sadly the establishment figures won in my state.
Frankly I don’t care who wins in November so long as they immediately and vigorously pursue prosecutions of the criminal regime currently grifting the country for all it’s worth. I find it very unlikely any Republican will do that, although ‘28 may be a different story.
Kamala’s name was on the ballot in the primary. I voted for her in the primary, that’s how it works. But you’re here in bad faith so I’m not gonna waste time explaining grade school civics to propagandists.
That’s simply not true, there was no primary election for Kamala on ‘24. She was anointed.
“Bad faith” huh?
Her name was on the ballot I cast, so I dunno what your deal is. You talk like you listen to Fox news. They kept saying anointed too. Funny coincidence I’m sure. I genuinely hope all you fox- I mean faux leftists live in deep red states, you deserve the representation you work for.
Do you mean because you wrote it in instead of voting for Biden? 🤔
Otherwise you’re misremembering; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
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Hello brand new ml account that’s trying to dissuade democratic voters and totally isn’t a ruspublican propaganda account!
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I’m so severely sick of dealing with the class of people who lost the election for Democrats in 2024 by refusing to address the fact what the administration had aided and abbetted the whole cloth slaughter of a people and then claim resistance to that was a psyop or conspiracy.
You lost us that election doing so. Please stop.
Literally no leftists were denying or avoiding Biden/Kamala’s support of the genocide.
We were telling you people that Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide, and start new ones while also destroying global peace. And he did.
Its not our fault you and every other drooling dipshit refused to actually bother to look at the situation objectively and from a perspective of “which option of the LITERALLY ONLY 2 VIABLE OPTIONS leads to less deaths”?
Maybe this November you and the rest of the dipshits will rub to braincells together and actually vote for the only option that kills less people, and hosts any political movement against killing people in general.
Democrats sure as fuck were. And plenty of “liberals” here. We’ve got all the receipts.
You needed to run an anti-genocide candidate to stop him. You sabotaged that.
For like, the 400th time…
YOUR THE FUCKING DIPSHIT HERE!!!
You can’t run a pro-genocide in the anti-genocide lane and expect to win. You lose the fucking election.
THE ONLY FUCKING OPTION IS TO MOVE THE CANDIDATE TO BEING ANTI-GENOCIDE!!
Thats it. Period. Fin. Finito. Finale. Pau.
You side offers no credible mechansism for how to move an electorate. The only other option is to move the candidate.
The fucking idiots here are the ones who expected American voters to behave differently than they do. You don’t get a choice in how voters behave. You can only adapt to it. You, YOU IN PARTICULAR, refuse to live in a world where the strategy maps to how real actual fucking voters behave.
Your fucking strategy is FUCKING WORTHLESS and just hands power to fascists. THats it. And Democrats did exactly what you wanted them to. And they handed the fucking power to fascists. So since you wont fucking pull your head out of your ass and live in an evidence based reality, I can only assume, you too also want to hand power to fascists.
Thankfully you peices of shit have completely lost control of the base and the party, and people who think like you are being ignore at scale, since all you are capable of is handing power to fascists.
Keep working for MAGA, you’re doing a good job.
How is a political establishment that directly aids and participated in genocide redeemable to you? Who from the class of genocidiaires can we vote for with the faith that they won’t continue their genocide? Nearly every mainstream politician in the US is irredeemable and the sooner the system collapses and the imperialist US military loses its ability to carry out atrocities the better.
Or, you know, not voting against the guy who told us he was going to be a dictator who wants to nuke Gaza and turn it into a resort was a stupid choice.
Neither viable option promised good things for Gaza, but one promised bad things. The fact that people can’t understand that is why we’re in this mess.
At least there was a chance that Harris was bullshitting to get funding for a last minute campaign against a guy baked by multiple billionaires. She was the one in the Biden administration pushing for the investigation required to stop arming Israel.
Trump just wants to cause pain because he gets off on it.
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That’s fine. But if that how you approach an election you hand governence to the fascists. You can have the attitude that it’s acceptable to take the lessor of two evils: But if you run a campaign or election in that manner, you lose the election.
It’s not an acceptable or viable strategy which Democrats can use to win. They lose when they engage with your sentiment. It’s remarkablely clear that voters don’t respond to voting for the lessor evil. You can be mad about h that or angry with voters, but you can’t keep living in denial of it as a stated fact.
Campaigns have to conform to voters for them to be successful. Politicians need to reach and meet voters where they are at and engage their policies and positions to conform to what voters want, or they lose elections.
We’re not in the mess because of how voters behave. We’ve always known that the approach you outline loses elections. You should really grapple with the sentiment you are expressing here because the cognitive dissonance is within in this case.
In 2024 you had two Democratic candidates for president both refuse to go to where their voters were in terms of policy. And it lost an election. And your frustration is then repreojected onto voters. You’ve got it backwards. All of your frustration should be with the candidates who stepped away from where the votes they need to get elected were. And everyone with eyes saw this happening in 2024. Outside of party loyalists, no one was fooled by either Biden or Kamalas campaign or why it was happening.
The problem is that major Democratic campaigns refuse to acknowledge this and instead insist the voters conform to the corporate and AIPAC donors want. And what that class of donors wants from candidates loses elections.
It’s how you have to approach an election in this country. The time to push is during the primaries, but after that you have to pick the least bad option, or you get stuff like a second ongoing genocide.
Two genocides is worse than one.
Jfc can you please try and live in an evidence based reality.
NO. Fucking stop. Stop losing elections on our behalf by promoting a evidentiarilly demonstrated-to-be a failure strategy.
That’s not how fucking elections work. Democrats lose elections when they do what you are advocating for. Please fucking stop. We can’t afford to continue to lose because you insist on both being wrong, and having your way.
StabbingSky is not running a campaign. They don’t lose elections. You (plural) are conflating two arguments:
And then a lot of arguing at cross purposes ensues.
They lose elections because people are too stupid to realize that change starts locally, starts with the primaries. It’s always taken attention and work, but most people just show up on Election Day and bitch about their choices.
What is the alternative during the actual election? You need to get the fucking party that still contains some sane people in it in power, then you work your ass off to get rid of the shitty corporate ones. A general election is not the place for activism, it’s where you do damage control.
That’s the whole problem. Democrats see the very understandable cynicism many people have around their vote actually mattering in our current political reality, and they conclude it’s because they’re stupid or misinformed.
Right, so instead of swinging wildly back and forth, hopping that one weird trick will eventually save us, a smart strategy would realize this and be strategic.
I’m not saying this to defend dems, they are a problem as well, just not as much of an existential one. They have shown that voter pressure still leads to change, maybe not always done right, but Biden bowed out eventually due to pressure, the other side NEVER will.
We have the power, the vote can still work, the powers that be know what our idiotic voting patterns are though and they use us. Time for us to use the fucking system against them.
This is the wrong question to be asking because, as I seem to continuously have to repeat, this isn’t how voters operate and not how elections work. Its not how people operate. And in an election, you don’t get to decide how people work. People work however they work. You have no other choice than to adapt to that if your goal is winning an election.
There is a rot in the brain of liberals, which emerged as an extension of a suite of propaganda around “strategic voting”. If pushed I could dig up the original clip which was making the rounds almost a decade ago. And the problem with this brain worm, is that it fundamentally misunderstands how voting functions, how voters function, how elections work, and more critically, it does a standard kind of slight of hand that we’ve seen so many times, where it displaces responsibility from systems and people in power, onto individuals within that system. And you, in your response, are victim to that slight of hand.
Its what the oil industry did when they put the onus for climate change onto individuals (recycling, reducing use, cutting down on meat). Its what the tobacco industry does. And its what the DNC does. Rather than allow the conversation to be about those actually in power, who can actually decide to do things differently, the conversation is flattened to one where, through some magical unprecedented mechanism, mass individualist collective action is expected to manifest, and not only, but to also land on the same collusion around the value of Democrats value when put into power.
Its pure fantasy. It based on hypothetical proposition of voter behavior, one which has repeatedly been demonstrated to be false. There is simply no mechanism for it.
Push the candidate to where the voters are. Be critical of candidates, harshly so. Force them to hear the criticism so that they move to where voters are. Do not allow them to persist in echo chambers.
You can not move voters in the course of an election cycle. You can move a candidate in an afternoon or during the course of one conversation.
It seems like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the US election system works. Go read up on it.
Wrong.
Yes, you are.
The people who don’t seem to understand that are not arguing in good faith.
I am really deeply convinced most of the people who make comments like that online are right wing trolls, because there’s pretty much no better advertisement for the Republican party at this point than pretending like there’s a sizable group of people who actually liked the Biden administration. Like even if you are a Joe Biden superfan, you’ve gotta understand he got rejected in 2024 and there’s zero point now in trying to rehabilitate his brand. Telling everyone how great Newsome is I would understand (though obviously disagree with), but simping for Biden at this point? Doesn’t make any sense unless you’re trying to piss off progressive voters.
Check his history, dingdong basically exists to blame democrats for things republicans do. I’m not even sure they’re US American.
All the trolls in this community who flip out anytime someone makes a reasonable point about how the Dems are fucking up yet again are a way way way bigger problem than whatever you’re trying to say with this personal attack, the fact is we wouldn’t be in this situation if dumbass moderates hadn’t lost two elections to Donald Trump by being completely awful at politics and putting so much more energy into punching left than dealing with rising fascism
The fact is we wouldn’t be in this situation at all if every self-declared leftist/progressive actually fucking voted in primaries and every election. But you don’t, and then you bitch about not being represented. No shit, none of you fuckin vote, you’re not even at the table because you don’t do the bare goddamn minimum civic duty. Our whole culture is fucked.
Why would a leftist vote for someone with no leftist policies. That doesn’t fucking make sense, lol.
All I can say is that they aren’t interested in winning elections. Clearly. Their response is pathological, conspiratorial, and antisocial. There is a term which is becoming a bit of a trope, but its been gaining traction over the previous few years, which is simulacrum, a synthetic reality of ones own creation.
Corporate and “centrist” news sources spent decades building up a simulacra for mainstream dems and liberals to inhabit. And when you attack that fantastic world view, one totally unhinged from reality, they take that attack personally, because they’ve lost the attachment between their perceptions of how they think the world should be, and how the world actually is.
Serious question.
If a politician can’t be bothered to stop supporting a genocidal regime (Israel) or defend the human rights of Americans (lgbtq,) why the fuck would we believe they’ll stand up against fascists at other times?
Silence is complicity, and a shocking number of democrats are awfully silent on things that should never be.
Isn’t exactly pragmatic to trust the guy whose going to stand around and watch while you’re being raped.
You’re right, the arm band wearing Nazis are actually the better option in this scenario for dumb fuckin tankie-ass reasons that make sense to dumb fuckin tankies.🙄
It’s amazing.
I’m not a tankie.
But you can’t answer a simple question without going there.
So, let me make the question even simpler:
Why should I trust fascist-Lites to protect me from fascists?
Enough democrats are fascist-lite. Which is why the Biden admin did absolutely fuck-all to stop helping Israel or protect voting rights or trans rights or actually hold Trump and his cronies to account.
Your “pragmatism” is what got us here- going back over 50 years- and implying I’m a tankie for saying it says more about you than me.
What are you proposing?
That we stop supporting fascists because they’re less overtly fascists than other fascists.
The DNC has gotten away with that for far too long.
If a politician did fuck-all back when it was easy, they’re not gonna do anything when it’s hard. I don’t have any good solutions- I don’t think anyone does.
Right now, we’re on track to a fourth reich and I’ve been warning anyone who’d listen for the last decade. If you think there’s not gonna be pain ahead, I got bad news for you.
What does that mean in practical terms, though?