geteilt von: https://lemmy.ca/post/42877331
cross-posted from: https://biglemmowski.win/post/6224801
Michael Gloss, 21, was the son of CIA Deputy Director for Digital Innovation Julianne Gallina Gloss, and Iraq war veteran Larry Gloss.
Before arriving in Russia on August 13, 2023, Gloss was travelling around Europe. On his Vkontakte page bio, he wrote: “I ran away from home (and) traveled the world. I hate fascism.”
On April 4, 2024, he was killed, likely during a Russian offensive near Bakhmut, however, his burial in the U.S. did not take place until December 2024, Important Stories reports.
🌻
His obit linked from that article got pulled, but @betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world posted some screenshots in the other thread
good
The irony is that even though he was a tankie he did not get to ride in a cool tank ☹️
He died doing what he loved, being a fucking idiot.
This.
Hated fascism
Fought for Russia voluntarily
Hm.
He must’ve been what all these tankies look like in real life.
That koolaid starts lookin real tasty to some folks doesn’t it?
*FlavorAid
His social media posts show a distinct change in his views — one identified by Important Stories as belonging to Gloss suggest he believed in conspiracy theories involving Ukraine, and claimed NATO was an evolution of Adolf Hitler’s Nazi party.
As always, the root villain is engagement-driven social media.
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I recognise one of those names: Hans Speidel was part of the plot to assassinate Hitler (by detonating a briefcase explosive), and was later arrested by the Gestapo. He also famously didn’t relay Hitler’s orders to bombard Paris with V1 and V2 rockets to his superior.
I can kind of understand why someone like him led NATO forces.
Don’t know about the rest of them though.
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Why…? Did you look at a geopolitical map of Europe during that period? If you did you’d act less surprised that the commander of the NATO forces of central Europe happens to often be a high ranking officer from central Europe. Germany specifically, the very country cut in half between west and east alignment and the epicenter of a lot of cold war shit, and not from Italy or Belgium or Denmark which are not located in Central Europe. Give the tankie conspiracies a rest.
Your sentiment here betrays a misunderstanding of the way war works. People who fight in wars for years or decades (which was very common at the point in history you’re referencing) were often “just” in the business of fighting in wars. There were people who fought on two different sides of the same “ideological” conflict. The mechanics of fighting a war are fairly separate from the political and ideological ends of the war.
Nobody tell this guy about Operation Paperclip
The most simple answer: We wanted as many Germans to eventually use against the Soviets. Anyone who was not a big name was kept around for the eventual return of the West German Military. Same with scientists and operation paperclip. The soviets did the same to eventually be used against the rest of Europe.
Yes, and there were plenty of high level Nazi who rose to power in East Germany… Just because Vincenz Müller was chief of staff for the east German army doesn’t mean the Soviets were an evolution of the Nazi state.
It just means that both sides utilized Germans to deter or lead a conflict that was likely going to take place in Germany, and that pretty much all Germans with military or political experience post WW2 were at some point Nazi.
Pretty much all Germans with any experience post WW2 were in some way nazis. As I understand it, you had to be a party member to hold any important job.
Something like an actual true NATO-nazi conspiracy is how nazi chief of staff and war criminal Franz Halder ended up avoiding the Nuremberg trials and working with the US Army Historical Division and the coming founder of the CIA to create the myth of a clean and non-political Wehrmacht.
But any reasonable person will understand that that was an enemy-of-my-enemy kind of deal. (We all know NATO are secretly Islamists as proven by Operation Cyclone.)
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I’m gonna need sources for that chief or else you’re just spreading tankie propaganda
I was wondering, so I checked out the first guy on Wikipedia. The image isn’t lying about him, but the chief of staff part is sensationalizing it a bit. Dude was a career soldier since world War one, rose through the ranks and was chief of staff for an entirety of two weeks. Neither the German nor the English Wikipedia article on him really shine a clear light on his opinions. But he was definitely involved in the planning for military operations of the Nazis against the soviet union, and hunting down “partisans” in the occupied areas. According to the German wiki, one biographer claims that he did that as “humanely as possible given the circumstances” and “taking care of civilians as much as possible” (quotes roughly translated by myself), whereas some other historian cites some evacuation event at that time as clear evidence that he wasn’t that humane.
I personally feel quite confident in calling him a Nazi. He stood next to Hitler during the stauffenberg bombing and got injured (that was while he was chief of staff), He was suspected of being involved in the planning, but there was no evidence. And apparently he told the Gestapo everything he knew about the attackers, fully supporting the investigation against the conspirators. (to be clear, that last part isn’t stated like that in the articles, but I think it is a fair interpretation of what it sais). He also saw it as a duty of a Soldier in the Reich to fight on the east front, despite explicitly believing that that fight was a lost cause, and that many would die a needless death.
After the war, he gave testimony at the Nürnberg trials, and later worked together with the US army building up west German forces against the communists. (my personal interpretation: he had experience fighting against Russia, so they kept him involved.) Dwight Eisenhower liked him so much, he involved him majorly in the development of some European defense forces. At that point I got tired of reading, and only skimmed over the rest. Stuff continued, he built up the west German army, and later got his job at NATO. I did not read up on what that job actually was, and what he did in that role. But at this point I have no reason to doubt that it was a high level position, doing strategic stuff against the Soviets.
So, the guy was surely a Nazi, definitely a chief of staff under Hitler, and he did later hold a high position at NATO. Why would I call the image sensationalizing it, when it’s true? Cause explicitly calling him “Chief of Staff under Hitler” in the way it is in the image to me implies to me that he was a major thought leader in fashism. But everything I read about him makes him more the just-following-orders type of Nazi. Still a Nazi though. I also kinda understand how he ended up at NATO. I see it as a product of it’s time, and something we should acknowledge. US took in Nazi scientists to put people on the moon, and they apparently also took in (high ranking) Nazi soldiers to prepare/fight against the Soviets. But to me this doesn’t necessarily imply some Nazi conspiracy inside NATO. I don’t think someone like that should be in a top level position in that organization today. But he was, and given the circumstances, he was probably even a fitting choice. That alone should be reason enough to do better today.
Sources: the English and German Wikipedia articles on Adolf Heusinger. Was my first time reading up on him, on mobile on a train. Hope I did enough to separate what the articles said about the guy from my interpretation on it.
Adolf Heusinger: Started in 1915 under the German Empire. Stayed on after WW1 and rose to command in 1938 for the wehrmacht. Went on to serve with West Germany.
Hans Speidel: Similar story, possibly involved in a coup.
Johannes Steinhoff: Fighter ace during WW2, flew through the whole war with 176 victories. The Luftwaffe was comparatively treated very well due to their treatment of allied soldiers. Most Luftwaffe members were not punished for the war.
Johan von Kielmansegg: Joined in 1926 under the Weimar Republic. Served with the general staff at the Prussian Military Academy, and was the General Staff officer to the Wehrmacht high command. Possibly involved in a coup.
Seems they were all Wehrmacht or Luftwaffe, were respected, and did not have a besmirchment like knowing about the death camps.
Heusinger only became Acting Chief of General staff in 1944 for a month until he got blown up by said coup.
…So?
Poking through some of their history (Ernst and Karl), looks like they were indeed Nazi commanders. They served lower ranks after the war, got more education/experience and rose again to perform well within NATO.
Maybe I’m naive, but I believe horrible people can go on to do good things, and that’s fine. I think my favorite character archetype for this is General Iroh in Avatar, who was involved in unspeakable genocide, changed, and ultimately toppled his own dynasty. He’s one of the most beloved characters in fiction, but a quick bio of his in an image would get him utterly crucified as a terrible human being.
Hence drive by image posts kinda like this without context/history, on the other hand, largely provoke outrage. It’s exactly the kind of thing that would trend on the Twitter algorithm and obliterate any nuance. That’s not necessarily your intent, but it’s kinda the aggregate effect.
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The source doesn’t matter, it’s more about the example, and idea.
More bluntly, horrible people (like nazis) can go on to do good things in life. That’s okay.
On the other hand, posting the picture without a ton of context seems to reinforce the very thing you are worried about:
someone MIGHT get the impression there was something fishy going on at NATO from the get-go
When that doesn’t seem to be the case. Nazis, tankies, whatever populist group you can name operate on negative quick impressions to sow doubt and anger with institutions.
I searched the first guy up. He was only Chief of (General) Staff for a month in acting, during which he got blown up sitting next to Hitler during the assassination plot. Before that, he was the Operations Chief, but the High Command for the Army had little control as Hitler made it bureaucratically compete with the High Command for the Wehrmacht (combined armed forces) so that he was the one in command. The German Army also didn’t include the Waffen-SS, the forces that carried out the atrocities. And you’re including a (famous but) normal pilot on that list as example of Nazi infiltration by #3?
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One can find reasons to back any cause; posting some set of reasons often comes off as a tacit endorsement, though I get now that that wasn’t your intention.
Were there not any Allied military officers that were qualified?
Nothing in the image says they didn’t have more Allied officers.
My goodness.
Good riddance and a minuscule loss. The NATO supplied tungsten is working. Did the CIA know where this dumbfuck ended up?
Ran away from home as an adult, lolz
I can relate. sometimes shit gets toxic late in life.
“I hate fascism” and then fighting for Russia however… damn bro.
This is the worst Disney secret agent teen action tv show ever.
Or the best if you’re seeing it from the perspective of the drone operator.
And nothing of value was lost
Bet it was just a rebellious phase because his mom works for the CIA. Mission accomplished comrade you stuck it to the man.
So nothing important was lost. 🌻🌻
Would you mind explaining why you added the sunflower emoji? I googled it and it’s their national flower, but what’s the purpose of putting it in comments?
I may be wrong about the intention, but early in the invasion an older Ukrainian lady approached some Russian soldiers, harrangued them about being where they weren’t wanted and gave them some sunflower seeds to put in their pockets so their bodies would fertilise the soil after they die.
one less tankie in the world. All the others need to follow his example right the fuck now
Rest in piss
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