“well…it’s too late now”
Why is that written on an Office Space screenshot? That doesn’t make any sense. It’s not even close to anything said in that scene.
Why do people insist on shoving memes into everything? Did they not think their post was good enough on its own?
It’s losing it’s meaning over time, probably because the movies not being watched by “new” people very much. If you take out the movie context that made the meme he looks like he could be saying the text and I guess that’s good enough for people.
Memes are funny because its a reference to a thing we both know and thus an inside joke elevated by that fact.
Modern ones are either that, or kind of just “heres a funny picture with text thats kind of funny next to this picture”
How does the picture make it funnier here?
I don’t think I’ll ever understand the affinity for it. It’s the Internet equivalent of that annoying kid in middle school who couldn’t have a conversation without quoting The Simpsons or South Park lol
Meh; a lot of those guys were my friends.
PHP is dead. Learn PHP.
I’m looking forward to living long enough to see this meme age another 30 years with PHP still alive and well.
So, you could have programmed happily in php for 30 years, or jump on the new bandwagon every other year? compelling argument.
One does not program happily in PHP
While the language has improved over the years, I’ve personally never seen a PHP codebase that made me happy.
Or, if you spin it another way: you could’ve picked up the skills to develop for and support various frameworks, or get stuck in a rut for 30 years with just a single antiquated server-side language.
If its so antiquated why is it still used? For a lot of things its perfectly fine. Even this vulnerability is just a case of run the update command for your package manager.
It’s still used because momentum is a powerful factor. That doesn’t make PHP better, but it can make it a more expedient choice.
PHP is a preprocessor that grew too big for its britches. It’s a monolithic monster that runs only one thread per request in an interpreter. It works well enough if you need to manage the data of an internet forum, but it becomes increasingly unsuitable as the task’s complexity grows. If you need threading or background tasks, or if scalability is important, PHP is not it; just read any number of Nextcloud vs OpenCloud comparisons.
“one thread per request” , “interpreter”
(Looks confusingly) That’s JS and Python as well
PS: being obtuse on purpose, but PHP lends itself well to typical requirements of web hosting and you can always call out to a diff process if needed
Fair, but a lot of sites don’t need anything more complex than an internet forum, often less than even that.
You realize that the language evolved over the years and it’s not even close to the same language it was 15 years ago?
The fact that you also mix frameworks and languages also tells me that you have no idea what you’re talking about
.Net has been chugging along quite nicely for decades now.
Yeah microsoft has an amazing record! 100000% secure!!! lmao.
.NET is the single best thing Microsoft makes.
It’s fast, multi platform (all mine runs in Linux containers), and the developer tools are pretty good too.
I really HATE that Microsoft made it, but I love C# and .NET.
MAUI/.NET is nice
Last place I worked at that
abusedused .Net was serving an angular web app to interface with a c++ BE using soap.Now that sounds sane, until they made their own C++ to CSS transpiler to be able define the ui in back end code. Like angular written in c++ translated through .Net.
Through no fault of .Net I just can’t get past those flashbacks.
To be fair that’s only like top 5 most fucked up code I saw there.
And
COBALCOBOL just won’t die.It better not. I’ve invested all my money in it.
COBOL*
Stupid phone
I blame Microsoft for that
As backend code, yes. As a web (web, not api. As an api platform they’re great) platform… No.
Asp.net and mvc were imo a disaster, silverlight was… Oof.
Then there is maui which could have done it using blazor but just… Didnt.
… And then there is blazor itself. Though blazor is imo the best of all the web platforms they had, and i like it, it still has very rough edges and is not gonna replace javascript any time soon.
Hell, microsoft cant even decently support their own web ui platform ( fluentui ) because their backbone ( webcomponents ) is completely broke ( or did v3 FINALLY release? ). There are other blazor frameworks but they all seem to not take full advantage of blazor and its disgusting.What about modern ASP.NET? It feels pretty good these days honestly. I even really like the newer minimal API features
As i said, the api stuff of asp.net is very nice and straight to the point. The only bad thing ive got to note there is the openapi spec implementation they introduced in .net 10 is just terrible but itll improve quickly, its just early in its implementation ( like how system.text.json was )
Oh whoops, I just can’t read
So glad to see that Python finally made it big in 2022
It’s thanks to Django and Flask paving the way in 2003 and 2010 respectively.
Python was an even bigger mess in 2022 than it was in 2010. The version control hellscape intensifies with the more things there are to have version incompatibilities with.
I have lots of experience with node and a little with python.
Python seems great for working with large data sets and I really like jupyter notebooks. The available libraries are really great.
However, the thought of installing a Python CLI app makes me twitchy.
I suspect that node has all the same problems and that I’m used to working around them, but all the Python environment stuff is a nightmare.
Edit: dear python dweebs: I don’t care.
uv is a fantastic tool if you didn’t know
Yeah, absolute nightmare of writing
pipx install programname.iykyk
Just stand up a VM to do it in, so you don’t corrupt anything else you made in python that you also want to run on the same box, amirite?
A venv isn’t a vm
A venv is still a container to setup, configure, more environment to manange.
My preference is for an app that runs without all that, something I can build, link and distribute as a single executable file which runs when it runs and doesn’t leave a pile of (usually highly disorganized) infrastructure to untangle when we’re done with it. Yes, of course a venv done well helps with that - except when they’re done by the average piker.
The available libraries are the ONLY excuse for Python.
When you need tools more sophisticated (and labor intense) than your tool to make your tool functional, it’s time to re-examine your choice of toolchain.
Yeah, Python as a language is a mess IMO. We used it for making a electrical simulator and the language is…bad. The variable scoping, lack of explicit variable declaration, backwards comprehension syntax, the VERY CONFUSING object orientation design, that classes aren’t serializable by default, package story and deployment… It really has very little going for it, and combine all that with the awful performance characteristics it’s just…no.
Today I’m “Rust if it fits, if not Rust then C#”. We re-wrote the simulator in C# and performance was 70x better and the code got shorter, the deployment was hell of a lot easier since we went AOT and it just builds a native binary for the target platform. No virtual environment crap.
Python is very opinionated. I like it (other than the stupid ternary operator) but I can very much see why others don’t. (At the same time I will fight for it. It’s like the GNOME of programming languages.)
I will fight for it. It’s like the GNOME of programming languages.
For some reason this brings the image of dwarf tossing to mind…
Yeah, the fact that so much of the language is conventions as well doesn’t help. The type hinting is fairly poor as well, but then again type hinting is basically admitting that dynamic typing is a mistake (which it is).
Python is great for standalone scripts/CLIs with standard system dependencies. For actual apps you want venvs, probably managed by uv these days.
I’ve written 1000s of python CLIs/scripts over the years, typically wrapping APIs for otherwise shitty enterprise and SaaS software (also many one-off scripts for ETL).
Nowadays, AI writes these scripts in a fraction of the time (and reads the shitty API docs / otherwise figures it out) and my CLI toolkit is better than ever (with $0 ongoing cost). Calling MCPs from CLIs is also interesting, as some vendors never had usable APIs before now.
Python environment/packaging sucks, but at least the language itself doesn’t.
I learned basic programming in BASIC in the 80s. Back then when you needed more speed, you grafted in assembly calls, and the speed difference was dramatic.
Straight Python feels as slow as BASIC - it’s got nifty speedy library calls to stuff written in other languages, but if you need something that’s not available in a library, now you’re writing a library function for Python, in another language, and why not just write the whole thing in that other language and ditch the heavy toolchain?
It’s fine actually, all of the problemswith python packaging and env are overblown to insane degree.
yeah everyone elses experience is invalid.
Npm/yarn are absolute horseshit.
See? Node is just as bad as Python now.
Yep, they are.
Just recently there was an article here, where a person claimed that recommended python tooling is inadequate because they needes to read two paragraphs of documentation. Endemic problem really.
I used to work at a place that used Jython (which never got updated to Python 3, BTW) and was responsible for trying to keep that shit working even as various libraries started dropping Python 2 support.
I still get a thousand-yard stare when I think about it.
(Still worth it vs. writing actual Java code, though.)
And if everything had moved to one of those, almost surely there would also be similar impacts in a similar cve to point at to say “we should be using something else!”
Why is Python on the list three times?
Because none of their frameworks has ever succeeded.
JavaScript has similar.
AngularJS doesn’t even make sense here.
The first two are frameworks, the third is:
def serve(p: int, f): s = socket.socket() s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1) # let me reset plz s.bind(("", p)) s.listen() while True: c, a = s.accept() c.setsockopt(socket.IPPROTO_TCP, socket.TCP_NODELAY, 1) t = threading.Thread(target=serve0, args=(c, a, f)) t.daemon = True t.start()I have an entire file of some really cursed malicious compliance code for when I was brutally forced to write Python.
I notice the absolute absence of
"index.html"There are a few XHTML pages and templates later in the file hardcoded into single strings. Some stuff is populated from markdown (or was it gemtext? don’t feel like opening it again). I used XHTML because it’s easier to notice escaping mistakes.
Because Python is supreme.
Burrito supreme or a chicken supreme?
Love supreme ❤️
Seriously, I came to post this exact comment. Damn.
Everyone has forgotten java applets+ java servlets combo. I have no idea why it didn’t survive, but if it would have, it’d defeated PHP (in amount of vulnerabilities ofc)
Because people hate building FactoryFactoryFactories
I was told in school that Java applets were the future and they made us take a class that focused heavily on them. I did make a few games in applets, but they were always janky and I am glad they are dead.
I had to remove the applet-based server architecture when moving java 11->17.
The authors thought that it would be the right decision to accept code from users as applets
That’s both hilarious and scary. Scarlarious, if you will.
Now comes the scariest part. We removed this in early 2024
I work with some companies still running code from the late 90s, so I know this feel. It IS scary and I can only tell them to stop so much.
Thank you for your service
Applets were killed by Flash, which then became obsolete.
Applets were killed before that due to repeated severe security issues and Sun fucking around and not making them good in my recollection. Flash was just easiest applets with no Java and died for much of the same reason a decade later.
Time traveler: Moves a chair
The resulting timeline: PHP is dead for good. However, after some vibe coding caused massive errors in the ADSF framework (that replaced PHP), people are running to vibecode a fix, only to that cause another issue.
Oh my gosh if I could time travel and prevent generative AI from happening I would do it so fast. Although I do want to keep the academic and medical usage domains of AI. 🤔 HMM.
The medical usage of AI was shut down, because tech bros think singularity is 6 months away, then the LLM will turn into Robbie Robot from the hit cartoon series The Adventures of Robbie Robot, and starts curing cancer.
I bet AI could help you invent a time machine!
🫨
Need to go back and convince Alan Turing to change his test.
Just spent my entire morning patching legacy servers running PHP 7.0 applications. Fun times.
PHP is dead, learn Brainfuck
Brainfuck? You need our Lord and savior, HolyC
This is (also) about C++.
Perl + Mason
When I was a wee high school kid, asp.net was windows only back then and getting cheap windows hosting was harder than it was getting cheap linux hosting, so I focused on PHP more.
I haven’t touched it in forever, but its probably still good, right?Asp.net is a bit old hat these days, but Blazor is pretty cool, though personally I don’t know many people that use it. .Net is very much good now though.
It’s good
