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Ban cars from
populatedareas.Or ban cars from Gaia.
These threads are always full of people saying, “why don’t you just…” The problem is you are suggesting coping methods for a plethora of problems, in a vacuum individually. You’re failing to put all of the problems of cars, trucks, and their requisite infrastructure together as the awful, smothering whole that it is.
I don’t understand. Why don’t people buy cheaper and/or second hand cars?
Used car market is kinda insane right now, even worse for trucks.
It’s bad enough it’s affecting bikes, but you can still get reliable used bikes for 2-5K.
Ultimately the used car market depends on people paying 50K for cars, the more people buy less reliable/cheaper or used cars, the more expensive it gets.
Sounds like a lot of people were convinced to borrow way more than they could afford for a status symbol no one should care about. Financial literacy should be taught in middle school.
Yes, there should be accounting and financial classes in middle/high school. However, then the (predatory) loan industry would have less prey. They “love the poorly educated.”
A lot of people choose a car even when it is just worse.
My bike ride to work is 8km and takes 20-25 mins. Yet I know people who live and work near me who drive the same route which takes almost twice as long mostly sat in traffic. They spend more on their car than I do on my mortgage and that is before maintenance, insurance, oh and fuel too because despite choosing such an expensive car and never driving over 10km, oh yeah gotta go for ICE.
Suppose at least with such short distances driven that fuel lasts a while. Doesn’t stop them moaning about it though. I should start responding with the cost of Cornish pasties to power my bike.
I would if i could. I hate driving, but I would get killed if i biked to work. Hell, I’d possibly die just trying to get to the nearest grocery store. I need a bike lane.
Yeah, the car lobby really vetoed walkable and cyclable cities to… sell cars.
If they spend most of their time sitting in traffic then that gas tank won’t last very long at all.
I’ve spent only 9,000 so far on purchasing cars in my life. You do not need to spend 50k. I find the cheapest, most gas efficient beaten down used cars I can and ride them until I can’t anymore.
People really fall into wanting a “nice” car, but if you treat it as a tool to take you from point A to point B and not a status symbol then you can actually find half affordable cars.
I’d love not to have a car, but public transit is nonexistent in my area. If I attempted to bike I would either get ran over or some asshole in a lifted truck would roll coal on me for fun
On purchasing, sure, but how much have you spent on maintenance?
(And also, roughly how old are you? Having spent only $9k in your life if you’re 20 is a very different claim than if you’re 50.)
I’ve been driving for 9 years and one car was totaled in an accident otherwise I’d still have it.
So if we got technical and I count the insurance payout that reimbursed the first car I’ve spent 4,000 on purchasing cars. Second car was cheaper than the insurance payout.
My current car is from 2007, I’ve had it for 6 years. So far it’s only had 1 major repair that costed about 1,000. Otherwise just the normal maintenance at appropriate intervals. It’s sub-compact so the tires are small and quite cheap and it holds less oil than a standard sedan. When I do the oil changes myself this also saves me some money.
I expect the car to last at least 1-2 more years at least. At that point I either have to start pouring money into it or buy another.
Edit: Fixed a math error. Thanks /u/HubertManne@piefed.social
I’ve been driving for 9 years and one car was totaled in an accident otherwise I’d still have it.
Yeah, that sounds 'bout right: short enough that you can still have an artificially-rosy impression based on luck that nothing major has broken yet, especially since the collision replacement reset the clock. For all you know, that car might’ve been destined to blow its engine the day after it was totaled.
I’ve been driving for over two decades, and even owning almost entirely old cars (with only one exception, and that was one I didn’t pay for), I’ve spent much more than $9K on them. And that’s despite both doing most of my own maintenance and being willing to just accept flaws that other people would pay to fix or scrap the car over.
I’m not saying it’s a bad strategy, for those who must own a car. I’m just saying that even the optimal strategy still adds up eventually.
For all you know, that car might’ve been destined to blow its engine the day after it was totaled.
I 100% know that would not have have happened. I’m not a mechanic, but I know enough to assure you that is not the case.
Even still if it did die the next day that would be back to the 9k.
And I wouldn’t call it pure luck, I did a ton of research and shopped around for a couple weeks before I found something acceptable. It’s held up as expected
I 100% know that would not have have happened. I’m not a mechanic, but I know enough to assure you that is not the case.
I would also swear up and down that each of my old cars was reliable, until suddenly it was not.
I say that not to scare or discourage anybody from owning an old car instead of a new one, but just to have realistic expectations. And maybe encourage people to have a good roadside assistance policy.
The car that got totaled was in great condition and had absolutely no issues.
The car I’m driving today sure that one could go tomorrow or in a couple of years.
Cars definitely give you signs they are getting ready to give out. You just have to recognize them. Sometimes they are subtle and it can definitely be a waiting game, but once the signs appear it can be tomorrow or 2 years.
I haven’t owned many cars personally, but my family has only ever driven clunkers. You learn the signs and which ones are worth the gamble to ignore.
wait so you paid x for car1 and got a y payout and paid z for the second car and your saying x+z-y is -$1000 because that is what im reading. Are you sure you did not come out 1k ahead on car one and then car2 cost that and more?
The payout on car 1 was 5k and the cost of car 2 was 4k.
The economy was doing weird shit to the used car market when I got the first car and it held it’s value quite well.
I don’t remember the exact numbers anymore and I know I’m rounding so maybe it’s closer to -800, but I do remember coming out nicely ahead with the insurance payout.
Either way car 2 was cheaper.
so you paid 200 for car 1 and it ran for years with no maintenance?
Ah wait, I see my math error now big time. God I’m tired. So 4k on cars as first car was fully paid off by insurance.
Thank you for pointing that out I’ll fix my numbers
yeah sorry I replied fast to the last one but that makes more sense now.
deleted by creator
ok I don’t understand your negative numbers here. you paid 5000 and the insurance gave you 5000 back and then you paid 4000. So you paid 4000 in car buying. then you spent another grand in repairs. so cars have cost you 5k not counting gas and insurance and such. Don’t get me wrong that is really cheap but its just confusing when you list negative numbers suggesting you have gotten more than you have paid for cars in your lifetime.
that market just doesn’t exist anymore in my province, especially with the more thorough safety inspection standards.
they’ll let you have lowbeam headlights so bright that they’ll make a pedestrian in a crosswalk entirely invisible to oncoming traffic at a four way stop, but oh hell no you can’t have a tiny rust hole that could cut somebody if they walked up and stuck their finger into it and wiggled it around.
the cheapest cars that will pass safety in my area will run you at least $3000, at absolute bare minimum, and you’ve still got $500 in tax and licensing, plus $500 for used tires soon enough. and then the maintenance for brakes and worn/broken suspension parts… rust is a killer up here. I wish they’d stop salting the roads
Honestly its possible to just keep a car going forever if you get the right one. Get someone with a reliable track record and just make sure to spray down the frame so it doesn’t rust, keep up with maintenence, and you can drive it for 50 years. Even the big stuff that comes up (like rebuilding a trans) is cheaper than buying a new car.
Cries in state that needs, and applies, road salt 😭
You should be applying treatments to protect your frame. Regularly.
Unibody joys. It’s very unrealistic to try to cost the inside of your doors and trunk/hatch.
That’s not to say it’s not worth doing anything - it absolutely is. It just slows the rust down though, it can’t stop it.
Sucks to be you if you’re spending 50k to buy a car, buy used.
While I agree that buying used is the more prudent option, I don’t think we should be distracted from the fact that there are new base model cars close to the 50k range, which is ridiculous
For less than $25k you can buy a new Nissan Sentra, Hyundai Elantra, Toyota Corolla, Volkswagen Jetta, Mazda 3, or a Subaru Impreza. I’m sure there are others.
People just don’t seem that interested in buying cars anymore and consumers seem much more interested in projecting status
Nissan Sentra cost us 27k including the tax and interests. The marked price was 21k. That was 3 years ago. Made us feel very poor because we couldn’t just pay for it, and had to pay more overall for not having that money outright. We didn’t have any other debts.
So I don’t think people with other debts can afford a car outright either, so end up paying more. Rich people can avoid all that. Or they can take that loan, make more money from the money they already have (higher returns than loan interest rate), and avoid taxes on loan money, and get richer
Indeed, the boots theory of poverty. So many things are cheaper even in absolute terms if you have enough money to get things cheaper or get better things for not much more money that will way outlast the cheap stuff. Also people are more excited to just give you money when you have money (higher interest rate, even for very safe savings accounts).
Oh, I am certainly not advocating for buying new. I’m just trying to say that cheaper options are out there, even if consumers aren’t interested in them. It blows my mind that average transaction prices are north of $50k while everyone is seeming broke.
People can’t afford to own a car, that’s why. It’s not just public transportation infrastructure being fucked.
People can’t find used cars because everyone wants a car that’ll last a long time but then the job market is shit and people get high aprs and then ruin their credit, it’s a lot of shit to get a car but people fuck themselves so hard buying one because they don’t know how to navigate the financial aspect. … That’s at least how I see it.
You also gotta make compromises with what you want vs what you can afford.
Too many people with bad credit bitch about high aprs that lock them down. I feel like if we had a better understanding of the financial demographics they’re basing the research off of, we’d know who’s not driving because they can’t afford it vs lack of infrastructure by state.
The cheap used car market today was largely killed by cash for clunkers. Intentionally seized (literally, destroying perfectly running vehicles) engines to get them off the road. Near a quarter million perfectly running driving cars were intentionally destroyed. That had a short term affect on used car market sure, but more so it fucked people in this particular time for GOOD and CHEAPPP cars. I remember beating the shit out of 500$ bmws the night I got them off craigslist now I cant get a fucking civic for 3 grand that doesn’t need another 2 in repairs
Well once there’s a glut of cars they’ll either shoot the price down and tell nobody, rich private sellers will scalp the cheap glut or they’ll pull 👇
Intentionally seized (literally, destroying perfectly running vehicles) engines to get them off the road. Near a quarter million perfectly running driving cars were intentionally destroyed.
again and then we can all start complaining about public transportation twice as hard, with no results on our end but more profits on theirs…
Edit: holy shit they’ll destroy the for insurance money if they’re able to or they’ll sell them back to their manufacturers and lose contracts potentially going out of business but it’s more like the glut not being advertised is where it gets fucked and we need to put limits on how many vehicles someone can own. Rich people buying cars and selling them at scalping prices happens.
Even 25k is ridiculous for those models though. You used to be able to get a base model Corolla for like half that
“But what if someone likes me less for not spending as much money (mostly) frivolously?”
… then you tell them to go fuck themselves?
It’s frivolous when you’re buying a car to buy a car. When you’re pissing away money just to do it. When you need a car for life purposes, it’s not frivolous.
You can absolutely tell someone to fuck off if they don’t like you for how much you spend on a vehicle. 😏 Anyone can.
The US auto industry is absolutely to blame for pushing gigantic gas guzzlers on people. But the people who buy those monstrosities and get hugely into debt to do it are very much to blame too.
They passed a fuel economy law that had to do with vehicle weight, auto industry response was make bigger heavier vehicles to get around new fuel economy requirements. That’s the reason all of the reasonably sized personal trucks got massive like 15 years ago.
I think its the EPA for not regulating truck emissions as stringently as they do for normal cars.
DOT is in charge of CAFE regulations. The original law specified standards that were for “passenger vehicles” and “automobiles which are not passenger automobiles”.
DOT interpreted that as trucks, which made sense back then. Unfortunately, every manufacturer just declared their cars to be trucks (invention of the SUV) and the DOT let them.
Then they made it worse by scaling fuel economy to vehicle size, so manufactures just made cars have a larger footprint to be allowed to have worse fuel economy.
It’s also the auto industry for regulatory-capture of the EPA. It’s an ouroboros of corruption with plenty of blame to go around.
I’ve seen quite a few videos about “rolling negative equity” and didn’t even know it was a thing. Also, you hear someone threatening the car dealer for suggesting they buy a car for ONLY $20K when he’s never been seen something in less than a beamer and being in debt so they have to take a loan for the down payment (which doesn’t even make sense to me)… I hope these videos are fake 😢
The first time I heard about rolling negative equity I gasped audibly.
Cars are a depreciating asset unless they’re very rare. They’re always going to have negative equity. This is financial flim-flammery disguised with fancy corpo words.
I did not ask for even more interesting times, but the car loans and car insurance industries have some pretty interesting interactions with rising oil prices and climate change.
I just want a manual awd wagon. But I’m not allowed. Wrx was the last one. America gets shit for cars.
But think about what we get instead: massive diesel trucks!
Expensive to own, ass to drive, impractical!
Dont forget road noise!
I don’t really like that I’m paying $15-20 more a tank than I did a couple years ago, but I have no sympathy for the price of diesel and the guys with dumb ass monster trucks.
The issue with diesel is farm equipment and shipping. Basically everything we need to survive is impacted.
I don’t feel bad for the idiots that bought a lifted truck that gets 9 miles to the gallon though. They got what’s coming
The issue with shipping is that it could have been partially avoided with more reliance on rail and less on long-haul trucking, but that’s a choice that was inflicted on us rather than one we made ourselves.
Unfortunately freight rail often uses diesel as well. It is more efficient of course pound for pound, but the cost is still felt. Even nations with better rail are feeling the price because of this
Yeah, but electrifying rail didn’t require technological innovation the way batteries capable of long-haul trucking did. We could’ve had electric rail freight decades ago if the political will had been there.
a nice side effect of diesel prices on shipping is that I’m seeing a lot more electric delivery trucks on the road, it’s gonna suck for long haul, but maybe that will move to rail.
They’re working on hybridization atm
Yes, it’s the victim’s faults! They had no choice but to buy these things thanks to lack of alternatives , therefore they are to blame!
The Hyundai Venue is $20k and can get 50mpg highway.
People have a choice of what vehicle they buy.
But how is that going to help with your petromasculinity?
I like this sentiment the most. I worked in the oil and gas industry for a long time. (Ethically opposed the entire time, but thats not my point here.) And drove a subaru, worked with guy that drove a prius. Lots of Honda and Toyota sedans… the people doing the “manly” work aren’t even driving big personal vehicles because there is nothing to prove.
And abuse victims have the choice of leaving their abuser.
What a monumentally stupid comparison.
The poor person about to spend $100k+ on a truck, tearfully signing the papers at the dealership: sniffle And could you do that thing where you raise the truck up a few more feet and put monster truck wheels on it? I can’t believe you are making me do this.
lol This is exactly how some people picture it. Poor Americans. In hypercapitalist America, consumers just have no agency at all. Maybe your culture really is gullible and stupid?
Aw, those poor people had no choice but to buy that F-150!
The other guys at the construction site will make fun of them if they aren’t in six-figure debt for a truck that never tows or hauls anything!
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, but judging by the replies it seems like everyone is assuming that by “people have no choice but to buy a personally-owned vehicle” you must have meant “people have no choice but to buy a giant gas-guzzling truck.”
It’s a crazy leap and a strawman and precisely the kind of lack of nuance that makes it all but impossible to have intelligent discussions about issues that matter. But then again, this is the internet…
I mean, given the comment the reply is to it’s not a crazy leap in logic or strawman considering the comment itself specifically was talking about gas guzzling vehicles and not having sympathy for people who bought them.
Perhaps as a reply to the original post it would be read differently but the context it’s in makes it so it reads the way it does.
Ah, yeah, I read it as if it were a top-level comment. I see the connection now.
I’ll still give her the benefit of the doubt and say she likely meant it in the broader sense, because her takes are usually fairly reasonable.
But yeah, the giant trucks are unnecessary in probably 98% of cases. Honestly even in the 2% where one is needed, a smaller one will do. But those are harder to find these days.
The problem of compulsory POV ownership more broadly though is systemic in the US, and people trapped in that situation don’t really have an alternative option.
“We destroyed?” - it was car industry, no? I remember there was something about car industry buying public transport just to shut them down late.r
That is indeed the case; I believe “we” here refers to society, and functions as a synecdoche for the auto industry
Eisenhower interstate system in the US was the start of the downfall. It’s a very cool system, but it cost us the trains. I dont know that it can be justified. I like driving and having the freedom to do so, but I would also like to not have to: plus there are a shit load more people who directly suffer because they simply can not drive.
I hope the next wave of logistical genius incorporates more mass public transit, while still supporting some highway network.
Hub style, like airport parking esque, but for bullet trains and light rail. New building would need to require parking as part of the footprint (incorporated decks) to save on space that can be used for public benefit.
Easy to expand on, the counter argument is always “but the cost?!” Like wtf do you think a highway costs per foot? The answer is up to $2,000 per god damn foot. You can buy a lot with that.
All Cars Are Bad 🦔
Nah. Cars are a tool that can be good or bad depending on how they are used. Prioritizing car infrastructure over any other form is what’s bad.
I should be able to enjoy my daily life without a car. But being able to rent a car so I can go to the middle of nowhere on short notice is pretty great.
Having a single car requires car infrastructure which requires overproduction. The only reason we “need” cars today is that we have decided that society should revolve around it. We should strive to dismantle car infrastructure.
To the extent that we need cars (since our infrastructure would take years to change even if there was the political will to do it) we need to start copying the Cubans and learn to keep old cars on the road longer. Bonus: they don’t spy on you like new cars do.
We also need better public transport and to be promoting things like mopeds as a viable alternative to cars.
Amen!
I have just reached this point myself.
I have a short fun drive to work, enjoy it as a way to clear my head, and I even had a manual transmission WRX a long time ago. I have been checking up on the current models and there are some pretty good looking options whether manual + AWD or maybe a dual clutch setup, etc.
But right now I’m driving a basic car that we bought new like 14 years ago. It still looks good, it’s fun to drive (the automatic is shiftable and has lockup clutches while in gear), and it seems mechanically sound with very low miles for the age.
Just the other day I made a conscious decision to stop reading and watching car reviews, and I have been getting back into working on my own car. I have some supplies on the way to change some fluids and shine up the exterior.
Having a fun car helps the drive as long as there’s not too much traffic. I almost don’t mind driving my kid to school (because there’s not enough buses) because my GTI is fun.
What they need to do is go back to interchangeable parts and stop letting manufacturers make so many fucking different pieces that do the same shit. A car is a simple machine, stop adding gizmos and all kinda of shit to it to clog it down and bog the cost
If we did that you wouldn’t be able to see a block through the smog in some places.
Depends on how far back you go. Cars from the late 90s and early 2000s are still pretty clean.
Also, a lot of cars can be converted to electric with some knowhow and welding. This could become a cottage industry.
In California, all cars newer than 1975 must pass a smog test.
Converting ICE vehicles to electric vehicles is a cottage industry. While looking for a mechanic recently I found two places that do it.
People power!
I remember watching a show on SPEED that was just one shop doing custom EV conversions.
Of course it was in Cali.
'90s diesels can arguably be less polluting than modern “clean” diesels, depending on which pollutants you care about and if you’re running bio-diesel instead of dino-diesel. (Old diesels can run B100, which is carbon-neutral and emits zero SOx, but it’ll destroy the high-pressure fuel pump on a modern common-rail diesel.)
This is the way.
For simple® car designs, I anticipate that 3d scanning, 3d printing, and even mail order custom parts/manufacturing are going to be indespensible once available parts dry up. Until then, there’s no end in sight for replacement Corolla parts.
Feels pretty good living in one of the few parts of the US where you don’t need a car. Just walk or take transit.
Moving to such a place isn’t practical for everyone, sadly.
What I think would be practical is not pitching a goddamn foot-stomping, screaming, NIMBY hissy fit every time your city wants to offer transportation options that are anything other than another lane for cars. But I’m apparently in the minority in the US.
I am puzzled that not more people are fleeing the US.
Fleeing to where? Who will take us? Asking for me
PSA: if you have immigrant parents or grand parents you might qualify for citizenship in their countries of origin. Of course, this won’t apply to, nor help most people. In the cases where it does apply, you may need thousands of dollars for acquiring documentation and for application fees. I’m not in any way diminishing the luck or privilege needed to have a chance for a visa in a desireable country nor the resources and work needed to relocate.
Thanks I already talked to immigration lawyers for the country my mom was born in and don’t qualify. It’s impossible for me to get out unless I win the lottery to buy my way out. This country is a prison.
It’s not trivial to leave. Finding work is hard. Housing is hard, especially if you’re not physically there to look at places. Getting permanent status is difficult. For many people in the US, they only speak English. Maybe Spanish. So that’s limiting.
I know someone who did a few years ago now because, well, you would, wouldn’t you?
Honestly name a single country that’s better than the US that takes in immigrants from totally normal countries without a specific degree or sponson from a company. You’re already living in the best country just not at a good time. Open your eyes.
“The best country” my ass. It’s pretty good if you’re a white dude but not better than Canada or New Zealand or Sweden (not exhaustive). And in many ways it’s trending in the wrong direction.
Or all of Europe
Belarus would not be an improvement.
Bullshit. They have healthcare, mandatory 24 days vacation, and stricter gun laws.
Those are your only qualifications? And you’re not worried about it being an obvious Russian puppet state with openly rigged elections? Or that they’ve been unwelcome in the Council of Europe for like thirty years because of the unabashed authoritarianism and human rights abuses?
If you ask the daily heil, apparently the UK does and gives them a free house.
Hey, the US has been doing that for years too! Love seeing the same playbook in different accents.
I agree on the sponsorship part. Unless you’re willing to take a hit on your standard of living, immigration within STEM or an information economy field requires moving somewhere that will employ you first. It’s not impossible, but I imagine there’s quite a lot of competition these days.
Unless you’re willing to take a hit on your standard of living,
I would argue that the “hit on your standard of living” is more perceived than real (e.g. considering an urban apartment lifestyle “lesser” than a suburban single-family house one even though it’s actually better). However, I’d agree that immigrating is just flat-out difficult even without considering that aspect of it.
Wait till the AI token loans of 2045…
But I don’t want AI tokens… Then again, if everyone else gets addicted to it, fuck me my life is going to be so easy in comparison. Another expense I won’t have!
Already don’t have a car which saves so much I can buy a house and have more money left over than some car owners I know. Wtf do I spend the AI token savings on? There isn’t really anything I want. Maybe start a crack addiction? Not sure if its as addictive as Factorio though.
Dystopian novel: Workers compete for jobs, the only way to outwork the masses is to use AI, companies no longer buy* tokens and people have to BYOT, not far off the rideshare gig economy BYOC
All of my car purchases in my life were about 4k, 6k, 15k and 25k so far. All 4 collectively were about 50k Just saying.
Does this mean we’ll finally get some decent cheaper used cars on the market? (Just kidding, we all know the answer.)
You can get a decent used car but it’s like $25k and up
It’s why everything I own is 30 plus years old. Cash for clunckers was the biggest fucking scam.
Mine are both over 10 years old. One needed a new head gasket and the $8500 that cost was thousands cheaper than any car we’d consider.
This typifies how screwed up things are right now. It makes more sense to rebuild an engine than buy new - that was unheard of 20 years ago.
My current car cost 4k in 2020. It was made in 2007 and has only costed 1k in repairs that weren’t basic maintenance.
It’s ugly as hell, and honestly sounds like shit too, but it runs. Still good gas mileage too
Reject modernity buy ugly ass cars or if you can buy no cars
The headliner on my shitbox has started falling off and honestly it adds character.
Staple it back up!
I want to find those sparkly pins my girlfriend had in her 91 Pontiac
When I was looking in 2011, it was still ~22k for several-years-old Corollas/Civics. They just don’t lose any value.
Edit: compared to the new ones, which were also ~22k.
You can buy an old EV for less than $20000, way less than that if you don’t have a long commute
